My house rules document, looking for input

[calypso15]

Evil comments from me too!

- Humans: if your purpose is to add the extra class skill without changing balance, it'd be easier to not give any skill point (giving 1 sounds odd)

- Elves: the effect is to give 1 free prof to Bards, 2 free prof to Rogues, and 4 free prof to Clerics and Sorcerers. An odd choice (for ex. why bumping Clerics and not Wizards), so check if this is what you really wanted to achieve with this HR

As you pointed out later, the net effect for humans is identical.

I'll give your point about elven weapon familiarity some consideration.

- Fractional ST/BAB: why complicating, when you can use the normal fractional bonuses?

I'll look into the system, didn't know it existed.

- Sorcerer special abilities: I think there are too many that reduce the cost of metamagic, that if used together could be easily abused; Armored Spellcasting doesn't explain if the slots/day are lost permanently or only when you wear armor (but what if you put the armor on in the evening?).

I'll give the metamagics another read through. Someone else suggested to me to limit the Practiced Metamagic decrease to a minimum of 1, rather than 0.

The idea with the Armored Spellcasting was that the loss was permanent, but I think the idea of making it more temporary bears consideration.

- Class abilities (general): well you're practically boosting everyone here, are you trying to make the game easier to play or will you boost the adventures and monsters as well? [ Otherwise most of these are pretty cool unique abilities! especially the idea of differentiating Wizards (crafting, counterspelling, familiars) from Sorcerers (battle magic, metamagic) -> all of these sound like feats, did you find them somewhere or wrote them on your own?]

Good question. I tend to customize encounters based on the abilities of the party rather than their level so I hope that the overall challenge will remain the same (or even a bit tougher). Thank you, I had fun coming up with them . I made them up myself, with the exception of Flexible Arcana, which is a modified (and expanded) version of the Alacritous Cogitation feat from Complete Mage and Reflective Counterspelling, which is a modified version of the ability that the Archmage prestige class gets.

 

[calypso15]

First off: It's too long. I'm positive you can get the same experience without modifying so heavily. Many of your house rules have very little impact; they're nothing more that minor differences. Consider that each house rule has a cost; they reduce predictability (everything is balanced with core rules in mind and new rules might upset the balance when used in combination with your rules), and they increase the cost of learning all the modifications. Rules which are more complex that the rules which they replace are especially questionable.

Agreed. One of my goals is to bring it down in size and remove the minor tweaks that, while positive, don't warrant space in the house rules. As you point out later, I might move those to my "Advanced" rules document for later consideration.

For instance; you use fractional base attack bonuses: realize, however, that this means specifically that many classes' first level has received a significant boost. Level dipping in character optimization is already a good strategy often, and the "cost", say, of one level in "that class you want" has now decreased significantly. Fractional bonuses sound fairer, but ask yourself if that's really what you want, and why you need the additional balance issues it makes.

You use fractional bonuses, but now you're not really improving the situation by just replacing one table with another. Why not actually seriously really USE fractional bonuses instead of just another lookup table? It's not making anything simpler.

I'm going to have to look into the rule that you guys keep mentioning. Is it OGL on the net somewhere?

I don't mind the increase in dipping, in base classes In fact, it's something I wish to encourage. One of my goals was to decrease the reliance on prestige classes by increasing the benefit of multiclassing (and making the base classes better throughout their progression).

The divine casters spell list isn't clearly described.

Clerics are too powerful - they were powerful, but your modifications significantly up their power (esp. the spontaneous version...!).

I don't understand what you mean? You mean the part about being able to add outside spells to your list?

I agree, clerics already were powerful and I did increase the power. But how is the spontaneous version any more or less powerful?

How would you go about balancing them while keeping the feats every 5th level?

The wizards penalty for losing a familiar should not be greater as his level increases. As written, a familar is something you want to get rid of a soon as possible. Given how familiars work in game (namely mostly as roleplaying devices) this means that you're waiting until they make a stupid mistake and it dies. In any case, what's the point of the new rules surrounding familiars?

The main point is to do away with XP costs you don't control. Notice the change to raise dead/etc as well. But I didn't want to make the death of your familiar a non-event. What would you recommend?

Improved toughness is called "improved" but does not require toughness as prerequisite.

Just like in the core rules. Really I should just rewrite the Toughness feat. Thanks.

Half-elves and humans are less powerful in this variant because they lose their multiclassing advantage. You may want to give them something in return, esp. the half-elves which are underpowered anyhow.

This is something I considered, but I couldn't come up with anything I liked. Ideas?

I like my Death&Dying variant better . OK sorry, I had too! http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=199228

I don't see a house rule concerning character ability generation, which you want to add, just to be complete.

I'll give your Death&Dying a read through.

I didn't include ability generation because I'm not actually changing how those rules work. When I write up my chargen sheet for the game I'm going to run, it'll be in there (probably 28-32 point buy).

All in all, pretty nice house rules, but simply too many, for a too vague benefit. If you're sure this is actually going to increase your player's enjoyment of the game, then sure, go ahead. But I think most of it are minor balance tweaks that aren't really important enough to include. What you could do, is try to make two documents: One with real changes, and try to keep it to an absolute minimum, and another with extra character options, and try and place as many of your changes into that. That way, people can choose what level of investment into your rules they want. Many of your class modifications and even things like fractional increases to BAB and saves could be made optional to the player. As an added benefit, you can then see how important people really find those alternative rules (as in, if they aren't much more powerful, how many people choose to use the alternative?)

All good points, ones which I will keep in mind as I give my house rules another critical read through. Thanks a lot!

Calypso

 

[calypso15]

It might be nice to know what books you are allowing in these house rules.

I like your skill change. Very simple and elegant. class skills get you +3 other ones get you no +3.

Races all look fine.

For HD, it might make sense to go 3, 4.5, 6, 7.5, 9- you are after all using fractional Saves and BAB.

-For books... I'll probably outline that in my chargen/campaign writeup sheet. I don't tend to limit books. I say "Make a character, use whatever you want. But I'm going to read it at the end, so if there is egregious twinkage, don't be surprised when you have to start over."

-For skill changes... Thank you. I was relatively happy with them.

-For races... I don't like the conditional bonuses: "+2 to Will saves against enchantments cast by Orcs on the third full moon of the year", but decided it would be too much work for too little benefit to change them.

-For HD... I did consider that, but decided it would be too hard to keep track of.

Swaping around the casting stat seems fine. However charisma will likely never be selected.

Well, bards and sorcerers both have something to gain from choosing Charisma. Bards skills are largely based off charisma, and a number of the sorcerer skills and special abilities are based off charisma.

Barbarians are fine
No Bard changes?
Clerics are more powerful
Druids no big change
Fighter is fine
Monk- weaker?, can they multi-class freely?
Paladin- sure if you like it, turn them into a knight even more than they already are.
Ranger- nice change less finiky with their bonuses
Rogues- sure
Sorcerer- I like the changes.
Wizard- ok

Clerics ARE more powerful, and I'm not sure I like it. Trying to think of ways to fix it.
I'm considering undoing the changes to Monk.
Don't like the paladin changes eh?

Use magic device- why?

Well... because it's a rather class-defining ability. By doing away with class/cross-class skills, it made it less special for a class to get it as a class ability. So I decided to simply turn it into a class ability.

All level losses are -2 con? They should be that is what I do in my game however they are not permanent losses.

As a player, level loss sucks. A lot. So I decided to lessen the penalty but increase the cost.

 

[Nellisir]

Quick thoughts - you can decrease the number of pages just by adjusting your formatting. Change the text size to 10 pnt (from 12) and cut down on some of the white space.

The Unearthed Arcana stuff; fractional save bonuses, and crafting points, are available at the Hypertext d20 site. Which is a rockin' awesome site.

half-orcs: keep the charisma penalty, lose the charisma skill penalties, and increase the intimidate bonus to +3 or +4 to compensate. If you want to give them a few more minor racial abilities, give them a bonus to strength checks and/or constitution checks (ability checks, not skill checks).

 

[calypso15]

The Unearthed Arcana stuff; fractional save bonuses, and crafting points, are available at the Hypertext d20 site. Which is a rockin' awesome site.

That's the site I use as well, and I looked through all of the variant rules listed and didn't see the fractional one. Could you link it?

 

[calypso15]

- Elves: the effect is to give 1 free prof to Bards, 2 free prof to Rogues, and 4 free prof to Clerics and Sorcerers. An odd choice (for ex. why bumping Clerics and not Wizards), so check if this is what you really wanted to achieve with this HR

On further consideration...

In the core rules, the following classes gain the following benefits from the elven weapon proficiency:

Bard: 1 (longbow)
Cleric: 4 (longsword, rapier, longbow, and shortbow)
Druid: 4 (longsword, rapier, longbow, and shortbow)
Monk: 4 (longsword, rapier, longbow, and shortbow)
Rogue: 2 (longsword and longbow)
Sorcerer: 4 (longsword, rapier, longbow, and shortbow)
Wizard: 4 (longsword, rapier, longbow, and shortbow)

In my house rules, the following classes gain the following:

Bard: 1 (longbow)
Cleric: 4 (longsword, rapier, longbow, and shortbow)
Druid: 0
Monk: 0
Rogue: 2 (longsword and longbow)
Sorcerer: 4 (longsword, rapier, longbow, and shortbow)
Wizard: 0

The only one of those that bothers me is Druid. Maybe I'll make druids proficient with all simple weapons.

Or maybe I'll just change it back to how it was, which wasn't all that troublesome.

 

[calypso15]

How do you feel about this change to the way skills work:

No classes have Craft or Profession on their list of class skills. It does not cost double to gain ranks in a cross-class skill, and the maximum number of ranks is not halved. You still must have at least one rank in a skill that is trained-only in order to use it. When you gain a level, you gain one free rank in each of the classes class skills.

This would make classes less skilled at lower levels, but they would progressively be able to "top off" more and more skills, or branch out a bit. Thoughts?

Not sure I like this either... back to the drawing board I think.

 

[calypso15]

Take Two:

http://www.cybernet.com/~rogrady/D&D Rules for Web.pdf

I made a lot of changes, many of which you guys suggested or poked, some of which you didn't and I just thought upon reflection that they needed changing.

Calypso

 

[Quartz]

Hey all, so I just finished up the first real draft of my D&D 3.5 house rules and I'm looking for input.

I've given this a quick read-through.

Monks: Why move Evasion to 3rd level for monks? Especially as you're nerfing the multiclass dip. If you're limiting Divine Grace for paladins, you should equally limit the AC boost for monks.

Sorcerors: Fuel Metamagic looks to be potentially gamebreaking at lower levels. A sorceror will have a good Cha as it is his prime stat. I'm not sure how to balance this: maybe restrict it to spells that the character could ordinarily cast with the metamagic feat anyway? Arcane Spark duplicates an ability from the Archmage prestige class. Practiced Metamagic should have a minimum level increase of 1, otherwise you're going to have sorceror/fighters running around in full plate with Stilled Spells.

Feats: good.

Skills: do you have an alternative skill system? Because you're thoroughly nerfing the existing one.

Spells:

Raise Dead / Resurrection: the characters who need this the most are the fighters, and a loss of 2 points of Con is far worse a penalty than a level loss.

 

[Quartz]

Never mind - I was looking at the original document, not the revised one.