hi all. long time lurker/reader, first post. been playing dnd since '84. to the powers that be here---feel free to move the thread if it is in the wrong place. it touches on 4th edition, but is more general than that i think.
by way of background, let me start with a broad generalization. back in the day, tsr put out lots of campaign world-specific material and not so much rule-specific material with first and second edition. i guess they figured thats where they can make the most money. wotc, with the open license, put out a lot of core class/race/feat/presitge class stuff. so did a lot of the third party publishers. i guess thats where they figured they could make the most money.
to me, the ideal system is one where i buy the equivalent of the phb, mm, and dmg, and maybe one setting, and everything i need is in there----FOREVER. THEREBY SAVING ME THE MOST MONEY. i want one set of comprehensive all encompassing rules. i dont want a supplement book on ships and sea travel, one on the drow, and one on ogres, each introducing new spells, prestige classes, feats, skills, etc.
to an extent, i do that now. i dm a campaign with 3rd edition rules, not 3.5. we campaign in greyhawk--after the ashes (second edition--i just convert over when i need to), where the war has been over for a couple of years. (carl sargent made the best stuff ever, imho). i use the dmg, mm, and phb. i dont allow prestige classes, or the sorcerer. i use only the races in the phb 3.0 for haracter classes. the only feats and skills allowed are those from the phb 3.0. the only other significant house rules i use are:
1. no teleporting or other fast means of travel allowed, including huge time limits on flying, no wind walk, and phantasmal steed type spells only go as fast as a horse and dont fly, and no etherealness allowed. basically i want my players to have to actually travel like they did in the lord of the rings, where even gandalf rode a horse everywhere.
2. i limit all ability increasing items (belt of giant strength, etc) in that the total of all ability points they can increase is 2 from 1-10th level, 4 from 10th-20th level, 6 from 20th and up. by that i mean 2, 4 or 6 total in all ability scores combined, not 2, 4 or 6 points in each ability score.
that being said, i want a "rules lighter" system than 3rd (or 3.5th) edition. i dont want a chart to determine which hand the ogre uses to wipe his arse. i would however, like some basic guidance rules on naval and siege warfare in the dmg, a few pages on drow culture in the phb, and a couple of paragraphs on the ecology of the ogre in the mm. i'll do the rest.
rant alert: this is a game of the imagination. where's the imagination if there is a rule or rulebook for everything? is it because the educational system sucks these days and kids are simply not capable of it? i mean, putting in the time to create something is half the fun. i think that this is where pencil and paper games have the advantage over the world of warcraft type of mmorpg games. you actually use your brain and imagination to create something. and you learn along the way. i can't tell you how much time i spent as a kid in my local library pouring over books to learn all about vikings, knights, castles, and swords, as well as the history and cultures of various civilizations, so that i could bring all of that to my game. not to mention reading all sorts of fantasy and sci fi novels. rant over.
anyway, this brings me back to my main point. i also want to make up any character i want so that i can duplicate any person i have read in fantasy literature, without being a gimp/loser addition to a group of straight classed characters, not able to pull my own weight.
that being said, i am looking for the basic core 3 rulebooks, with rules that are comprehensive in scope, yet not in level of detail. the character creation and development rules need to be flexible enough to let me do what i want with my characters without making a gimp multiclassed character. the setting needs to be detailed enough that i know the basic country/city information, the geography, environment, and trade and power structures so that i can give the characters a feel of the place and a home to adventure in. i'll figure out on my own the name of the guy who runs the inn on the corner of smog street in the backwater town of bumfudge.
as for the core 3 rulebooks, it seems that as far as character/class/skill/feat/spells/combat creation and development aspects of it go, the best way to go would be to create a system where anyone can be anything they want, using a system where your xp can buy anything you want, from spell casting ability levels in certain schools, to a bonus to attack, to a feat or skill ranking or hp or saving throw bonuses. if you do that, there is no need for prestige classes. every character is unique in class and ability. also, the phb would have every spell, feat, and skill developed thus far. how many official wotc books have had the same spells, feats and skills in them? nice way to rip off your customers.
the dmg would have basic broad rules as described above, which aim for, above all else, to streamline gameplay. they would also have a comprehensive list of magic items and treasure. it would have some basic guidance rules or pc's in certain situations, like naval warfare, wilderness ambushes, mountaineering, and other-planar experiences. basically an improved upon version of the dmg for ad&d 1st ed. that gygax wrote.
monsters would not be "classed" i dont want to figure out feats and skill points for a giant. i just want him to have certain predetermined listed abilities, resistances and powers. also damn near every monster ever created in any supplement or book would be in the mm. we dont need a mm1, mm2, mm3, mm897.
if you cut out the unnecessary art and graphics, bring the font size down to that of the ad&d books, and give us all that i asked for above, even if the books are 600 pages each and cost 75 bucks each, at least once we buy them we are done ever having to buy another book again.
i guess that would be my ideal new edition of dnd.
anyhow, enuf said for my first post.
joe
by way of background, let me start with a broad generalization. back in the day, tsr put out lots of campaign world-specific material and not so much rule-specific material with first and second edition. i guess they figured thats where they can make the most money. wotc, with the open license, put out a lot of core class/race/feat/presitge class stuff. so did a lot of the third party publishers. i guess thats where they figured they could make the most money.
to me, the ideal system is one where i buy the equivalent of the phb, mm, and dmg, and maybe one setting, and everything i need is in there----FOREVER. THEREBY SAVING ME THE MOST MONEY. i want one set of comprehensive all encompassing rules. i dont want a supplement book on ships and sea travel, one on the drow, and one on ogres, each introducing new spells, prestige classes, feats, skills, etc.
to an extent, i do that now. i dm a campaign with 3rd edition rules, not 3.5. we campaign in greyhawk--after the ashes (second edition--i just convert over when i need to), where the war has been over for a couple of years. (carl sargent made the best stuff ever, imho). i use the dmg, mm, and phb. i dont allow prestige classes, or the sorcerer. i use only the races in the phb 3.0 for haracter classes. the only feats and skills allowed are those from the phb 3.0. the only other significant house rules i use are:
1. no teleporting or other fast means of travel allowed, including huge time limits on flying, no wind walk, and phantasmal steed type spells only go as fast as a horse and dont fly, and no etherealness allowed. basically i want my players to have to actually travel like they did in the lord of the rings, where even gandalf rode a horse everywhere.
2. i limit all ability increasing items (belt of giant strength, etc) in that the total of all ability points they can increase is 2 from 1-10th level, 4 from 10th-20th level, 6 from 20th and up. by that i mean 2, 4 or 6 total in all ability scores combined, not 2, 4 or 6 points in each ability score.
that being said, i want a "rules lighter" system than 3rd (or 3.5th) edition. i dont want a chart to determine which hand the ogre uses to wipe his arse. i would however, like some basic guidance rules on naval and siege warfare in the dmg, a few pages on drow culture in the phb, and a couple of paragraphs on the ecology of the ogre in the mm. i'll do the rest.
rant alert: this is a game of the imagination. where's the imagination if there is a rule or rulebook for everything? is it because the educational system sucks these days and kids are simply not capable of it? i mean, putting in the time to create something is half the fun. i think that this is where pencil and paper games have the advantage over the world of warcraft type of mmorpg games. you actually use your brain and imagination to create something. and you learn along the way. i can't tell you how much time i spent as a kid in my local library pouring over books to learn all about vikings, knights, castles, and swords, as well as the history and cultures of various civilizations, so that i could bring all of that to my game. not to mention reading all sorts of fantasy and sci fi novels. rant over.
anyway, this brings me back to my main point. i also want to make up any character i want so that i can duplicate any person i have read in fantasy literature, without being a gimp/loser addition to a group of straight classed characters, not able to pull my own weight.
that being said, i am looking for the basic core 3 rulebooks, with rules that are comprehensive in scope, yet not in level of detail. the character creation and development rules need to be flexible enough to let me do what i want with my characters without making a gimp multiclassed character. the setting needs to be detailed enough that i know the basic country/city information, the geography, environment, and trade and power structures so that i can give the characters a feel of the place and a home to adventure in. i'll figure out on my own the name of the guy who runs the inn on the corner of smog street in the backwater town of bumfudge.
as for the core 3 rulebooks, it seems that as far as character/class/skill/feat/spells/combat creation and development aspects of it go, the best way to go would be to create a system where anyone can be anything they want, using a system where your xp can buy anything you want, from spell casting ability levels in certain schools, to a bonus to attack, to a feat or skill ranking or hp or saving throw bonuses. if you do that, there is no need for prestige classes. every character is unique in class and ability. also, the phb would have every spell, feat, and skill developed thus far. how many official wotc books have had the same spells, feats and skills in them? nice way to rip off your customers.
the dmg would have basic broad rules as described above, which aim for, above all else, to streamline gameplay. they would also have a comprehensive list of magic items and treasure. it would have some basic guidance rules or pc's in certain situations, like naval warfare, wilderness ambushes, mountaineering, and other-planar experiences. basically an improved upon version of the dmg for ad&d 1st ed. that gygax wrote.
monsters would not be "classed" i dont want to figure out feats and skill points for a giant. i just want him to have certain predetermined listed abilities, resistances and powers. also damn near every monster ever created in any supplement or book would be in the mm. we dont need a mm1, mm2, mm3, mm897.
if you cut out the unnecessary art and graphics, bring the font size down to that of the ad&d books, and give us all that i asked for above, even if the books are 600 pages each and cost 75 bucks each, at least once we buy them we are done ever having to buy another book again.
i guess that would be my ideal new edition of dnd.
anyhow, enuf said for my first post.
joe
