Dragonblade
Adventurer
So lets hear how your game went!
My Thursday group just ended the game on a TPK. We entered the goblin cave and fought the goblins, killing most of them. One of them fled and we gave chase and it led us into a hobgoblin mess hall. Our DM had half the hobgoblins leave to get reinforcements (but most likely because he felt we would get worked over pretty good and wanted to be nice).
And we did get pretty worked over. So after taking on a couple of waves of goblins and then these hobgoblins with no rest, we lost the Cleric of Moradin. Then we took a short rest. While we rested, we barricaded the door the other hobbies had gone through to make sure we were safe. Our DM also decided to handwave back to life the Cleric of Moradin at full HP though sans spells already cast. Then the other hobgoblins returned, and battered down the door we had barricaded.
We stood our ground and fought because we had just healed after taking on two waves of goblins and a wave of hobgoblins and there was only six hobgoblins this time. It seemed like good odds, but we didn't count on the hobgoblin chief being so ridiculously uber. And we basically killed every hobgoblin, but took some licks in return. Then the chief proceeded to wipe out the party pretty much by himself.
After that we played the PCs at level three against a bunch of undead just as a one off combat.
Here are my observations on the play and mechanics:
-After being so used to the structure of 3e/4e, our DM was never really sure when something warranted advantage. The Rogue in particular felt very ineffective and useless in combat until the DM decided that all flanking granted advantage, thus allowing the rogue to feel more effective and get sneak attack more frequently.
-We played our first combat without a grid and the game flowed very well and was fast paced. About half my group have never played D&D without minis and didn't like not seeing exactly where everything was. For all subsequent combats we used minis.
-With minis in play, the next thing we noticed in combat was that due to movement being essentially free (no OAs, you could move before and after an attack) there was a lot of running up, hitting, and moving back away. In a weird way it reminded me of playing Dodge Ball in junior high school.
-It didn't offer a whole lot of benefit to the frontline warriors since the monsters were basically doing the same thing. But by moving in, attacking, and moving back it cleared space that allowed the wizard to cast shocking grasp by running up, using it on a monster and then darting back behind the tanks.
-All the PCs felt like they missed too often and that it was frustrating. Especially against the hobgoblins where with a +6 you had about a 50% miss chance. The hobgoblin warlord was virtually untouched with his AC of 20 and just crushed the party. Everyone felt like their attack bonus should be higher and/or monster ACs toned way down. It wasn't until the DM started granting advantage for all flanking that at least one PC would hit the hobgoblin warlord every a round, but even then we missed more than we hit and he wiped us out. IME, the sweet spot for PC to monster hit percentage is about 65-75% and our experience bore this out.
-Not allowing HD healing on a short rest without expending a use of a healing kit seemed really harsh. It seemed like a GP tax on healing. Both our PF fans and our 4e fans ended up disliking that little limitation. Though the PF fans did like the more variable HD method of recovering HP over 4e's static surge amount.
-The death and dying rules and healing from zero came up multiple times and everyone agreed it worked well.
-The fighter player liked his auto-damage on a miss class feature, but felt a little frustrated at the lack of other combat options.
-The wizard player ended up spamming shocking grasp. And not because it was too powerful, but because it felt like the only spell worth casting. Everything else felt underpowered. Magic missile felt way too weak and pointless. Its auto-hit being useful if there was nothing better to do and I wanted to hit an enemy at range. But otherwise, with no OA's, it was far more effective to dart in front of a melee PC, use shocking grasp and then dart back again. Shield was pointless. The +2 bonus never seemed to prevent a hit, and it wasted an entire round casting that could be better spent dealing damage. Burning hands seemed ok, but with the easy movement and limited range it was hard to use and catch more than a couple of creatures at a time. Comprehend languages should have had a ritual version. The wizard would have used it once to listen in on the goblins, but didn't memorize it. None of the other spells came into play. During our 3rd level combat, the wizard did cast arc lightning (which was amazing), magic missile (which was now worth casting), and once used the cat familiar to deliver shocking grasp. That was a cool tactic that everyone admired. The familiar mechanics were good.
-The Rogue character felt totally ineffective in combat and pretty much hid in the back until the DM ruled that all flanking granted combat advantage. Then the Rogue became much more active and the Rogue's player started having much more fun.
-The Cleric of Moradin was the first PC to die, twice. Our DM gave us a free resurrection after the first one. Being in the frontline and using his shield an ally reaction ability, just made him a target. The player felt frustrated about not being able to cast some things and attack. Like it was felt that Psalm of Battle should allow you to cast it and also still attack in the same round since its just singing.
-The Cleric of Pelor really liked the spontaneous casting ability, and their ranged minor spells were decent.
-The action economy was good and felt freeform. About half the group really liked it, but the other half wanted a bit more structured Standard-Move-Minor and felt like some of the spells should be minor or reactions to cast.
-The checks and saves system seemed to work well and just sort of faded into the background. A good sign. Everyone liked the open ended nature of the skill system.
My Thursday group just ended the game on a TPK. We entered the goblin cave and fought the goblins, killing most of them. One of them fled and we gave chase and it led us into a hobgoblin mess hall. Our DM had half the hobgoblins leave to get reinforcements (but most likely because he felt we would get worked over pretty good and wanted to be nice).
And we did get pretty worked over. So after taking on a couple of waves of goblins and then these hobgoblins with no rest, we lost the Cleric of Moradin. Then we took a short rest. While we rested, we barricaded the door the other hobbies had gone through to make sure we were safe. Our DM also decided to handwave back to life the Cleric of Moradin at full HP though sans spells already cast. Then the other hobgoblins returned, and battered down the door we had barricaded.
We stood our ground and fought because we had just healed after taking on two waves of goblins and a wave of hobgoblins and there was only six hobgoblins this time. It seemed like good odds, but we didn't count on the hobgoblin chief being so ridiculously uber. And we basically killed every hobgoblin, but took some licks in return. Then the chief proceeded to wipe out the party pretty much by himself.
After that we played the PCs at level three against a bunch of undead just as a one off combat.
Here are my observations on the play and mechanics:
-After being so used to the structure of 3e/4e, our DM was never really sure when something warranted advantage. The Rogue in particular felt very ineffective and useless in combat until the DM decided that all flanking granted advantage, thus allowing the rogue to feel more effective and get sneak attack more frequently.
-We played our first combat without a grid and the game flowed very well and was fast paced. About half my group have never played D&D without minis and didn't like not seeing exactly where everything was. For all subsequent combats we used minis.
-With minis in play, the next thing we noticed in combat was that due to movement being essentially free (no OAs, you could move before and after an attack) there was a lot of running up, hitting, and moving back away. In a weird way it reminded me of playing Dodge Ball in junior high school.
-It didn't offer a whole lot of benefit to the frontline warriors since the monsters were basically doing the same thing. But by moving in, attacking, and moving back it cleared space that allowed the wizard to cast shocking grasp by running up, using it on a monster and then darting back behind the tanks.
-All the PCs felt like they missed too often and that it was frustrating. Especially against the hobgoblins where with a +6 you had about a 50% miss chance. The hobgoblin warlord was virtually untouched with his AC of 20 and just crushed the party. Everyone felt like their attack bonus should be higher and/or monster ACs toned way down. It wasn't until the DM started granting advantage for all flanking that at least one PC would hit the hobgoblin warlord every a round, but even then we missed more than we hit and he wiped us out. IME, the sweet spot for PC to monster hit percentage is about 65-75% and our experience bore this out.
-Not allowing HD healing on a short rest without expending a use of a healing kit seemed really harsh. It seemed like a GP tax on healing. Both our PF fans and our 4e fans ended up disliking that little limitation. Though the PF fans did like the more variable HD method of recovering HP over 4e's static surge amount.
-The death and dying rules and healing from zero came up multiple times and everyone agreed it worked well.
-The fighter player liked his auto-damage on a miss class feature, but felt a little frustrated at the lack of other combat options.
-The wizard player ended up spamming shocking grasp. And not because it was too powerful, but because it felt like the only spell worth casting. Everything else felt underpowered. Magic missile felt way too weak and pointless. Its auto-hit being useful if there was nothing better to do and I wanted to hit an enemy at range. But otherwise, with no OA's, it was far more effective to dart in front of a melee PC, use shocking grasp and then dart back again. Shield was pointless. The +2 bonus never seemed to prevent a hit, and it wasted an entire round casting that could be better spent dealing damage. Burning hands seemed ok, but with the easy movement and limited range it was hard to use and catch more than a couple of creatures at a time. Comprehend languages should have had a ritual version. The wizard would have used it once to listen in on the goblins, but didn't memorize it. None of the other spells came into play. During our 3rd level combat, the wizard did cast arc lightning (which was amazing), magic missile (which was now worth casting), and once used the cat familiar to deliver shocking grasp. That was a cool tactic that everyone admired. The familiar mechanics were good.
-The Rogue character felt totally ineffective in combat and pretty much hid in the back until the DM ruled that all flanking granted combat advantage. Then the Rogue became much more active and the Rogue's player started having much more fun.
-The Cleric of Moradin was the first PC to die, twice.
Our DM gave us a free resurrection after the first one. Being in the frontline and using his shield an ally reaction ability, just made him a target. The player felt frustrated about not being able to cast some things and attack. Like it was felt that Psalm of Battle should allow you to cast it and also still attack in the same round since its just singing.-The Cleric of Pelor really liked the spontaneous casting ability, and their ranged minor spells were decent.
-The action economy was good and felt freeform. About half the group really liked it, but the other half wanted a bit more structured Standard-Move-Minor and felt like some of the spells should be minor or reactions to cast.
-The checks and saves system seemed to work well and just sort of faded into the background. A good sign. Everyone liked the open ended nature of the skill system.
