My lord Earl and his wife the ??????

[jgbrowning]

well

I was actually looking for precedence and peerage information for the earlier period of 1350-1500 or so and the best i could find was from a book written in the late 1500's... that one of course didn't mention the earl/countess thingy.

and well, romance novels... they have such ...interesting... uses of language...


joe b.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
my friend Jim, reading aloud, "He kissed her lovingly."
me, "Where's 'her lovingly'?"
Jim, "Somewhere close to 'her passionately'. Shut up.. I'm getting to the good part where he says, 'I'm going to ride you until you yield or crumble like a biscuit.'"
me, "Homemade or Pillsbury?"

*me, ducking thrown book*

 

[Gez]

And what about a thane's wife ? Thaness ? Or baroness (I believe thane is synonym to baron).

Just being curious. Me, I'm French, so it's easier:

Roi/Reine
Prince/Princesse
Duc/Duchesse
Marquis/Marquise
Comte/Comtesse
Vicomte/Vicomtesse
Baron/Baronne

And also roitelet (minor king)/"roitelette" (never seen it used) and baronnet/baronnette. One fun thing is that such minor nobles are often given bird names. An aristocrat of little nobility, with few land, would be called a hobereau (from the faucon hobereau, falco subbuteo, because that hawk is much smaller than the king of falcons, falco peregrinus).

 

[Tonguez]

The difference between Earl and Count is that Earl is a Anglo-Saxon word in origin (ie Jarl) whereas Count is latin derived

the word Count means Companion (of the Monarch) and indicates a Lord of the County - the person who employed (or sometimes acted as) the Shire Reeve (Sheriff)

Marquis is a Lord of the Marches (Border Counties) they are a higher rank becuase the borders were often subject to raids and the Lord had to have wider powers of martial law (ie the ability to raise an army in their own right as a Duke can)

Duke derives from the Latin word Dux "Commander' and are the head of armies.

 

[Agback]

Duke derives from the Latin word Dux "Commander' and are the head of armies.

'Dux' is better translated as 'leader' than as 'commander'. The Latin for 'commander' is 'imperator', the word from which 'emperor' is derived.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Piratecat]

This is a good reference. I just copied it to the archive for safe keeping.

 

[Bagpuss]

Not that anyone asked but . . .

Viscount
Wife : Viscountess
Style : The Right Hon. the Viscount of _________
Addressed : My Lord
Children : the Hon. (christian name)

Isn't just Viscount (Placename) and not Viscount of (Placename).

Only a little thing, but they will probably clamp you in irons and throw you in the dungeon for getting it wrong.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

some tidbits

I've only got little tidbits of info, but some might be worth tacking on...

Dragongirl mentioned:

Barons
Wife : Baroness
Style : The Right Hon. the Baron of ________
Addressed : My Lord
Children : no honorific

The reason that the offspring of a Baron (or Baroness) have no honorific is that the title of Baron is a life peerage (i.e. not hereditary), as such the offspring are (and remain after the death of the peer) commoners. (unless titled in their own right, obviously)

Barons are generally referred to as Lord / Lady <sirname>, whereas most higher ranks are referred to as Lord / Lady <title-area>, as in Lord Archer (Jeffrey Archer, Tory life peer, and embarrassment ) as opposed to "Lord Bath" (who is in fact the 7th Marquess of Bath)

Also, it is still possible (happens frequently in fact) to be Knighted in the UK, I found this interesting page which details UK orders of knighthood (current) and also rankings of the UK's medals (some of which have direct connection to those orders) Interestingly, despite awarding campaign medals, we hve no equivalent to the purple heart.

http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/uk_medals.htm

Hope this interests some people, I've waffled enough...

 

[Col_Pladoh]

JKust a note about the title of baron.

To the best of my knowledge and belief it is inheritred.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[S'mon]

Barons

Traditionally, Baron is an inherited title, however in modern Britain we _also_ have 'life peers' appointed by the government who are Barons for life only. Baronet is an inherited Knighthood, BTW.

 

[Al]

Count originally derived from the French comte, which in turn is a corruption of the Latin 'comes' (lit. companion [of the Emperor]).

With regard to courtesy titles, the general rule of thumb is that the eldest son is addressed as one lower. Thus, the son of a Duke is a Marquis. Courtesy titles can keep going: if that Marquis had a son, he would be an Earl. The current example in UK politics would be the Earl of Ancram (deputy Tory leader), whose father is the Marquis of Lothian. His daughters are addressed 'Lady' (as Dragongirl suggests).

With regard to Barons, they can be either inherited, or life peerages.

With regard to Viscounts, they are indeed simply addresed as Viscount _, rather than the Viscount of _. The owner of the Daily Mail newspaper, for example, is Viscount Rothermere (as opposed to the Viscount of Rothermere).

Hope this has helped.