My love letter to WotC

[Wicht]

What exactly can WotC release NOW for 3.5 that they haven't already released previously, or that wasn't filled in by some third party product?

Adventures.

Good adventures are like good novels in that there is always a market for them and the people that buy them will continue to buy them.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Man, I feel sorry for Paizo.

It must be disheartening to see so many people who supposedly enjoy their game truthfully admit that they'd love to go running back to D&D if only WotC would learn from their mistakes.

You shouldn't feel sorry for them. They're doing what they do and that's support their game and supporting it well enough that they're doing fine.

I'm not one of those aforementioned people. I have no desire to play WOTC D&D any more. They made an edition that I have no desire to support or play so now I play something else. WOTC D&D has effectively lost me as a customer. As a result I dont go around bitching about a game that I dont support and/or play anymore. Do I wish that they'd release older editions as PDF's at least? Yes. But personally, I have a lot of those PDF's already as well as the hardcopy sources. So it's no skin off of my teeth.

And also, now correct me if I'm wrong here, It's entirely possible to like and play 2 or MORE different types of games right? You see I know that it's possible because there are people who are playing BOTH Pathfinder AND 4E. Or who are converting Pazio material to 4E or using the 4E monster format in Pathfinder.

So aside from this and your need to take shots at Paizo at every given opportunity apparently what are you really trying to say here?

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I do, however, think that it's not inherently unreasonable to cater to fans of older editions a little bit - not much, which is why I said once a year would be more than enough, but enough to keep them interested and appreciative that WotC wants their business.

WotC is in a unique position as the only company that can cater to fans of every edition of D&D. Why not exercise that ability, even if only slightly? I firmly believe that there's a point where they can do that without unduly expending "opportunity costs" and make a profit.

Am I the only Pro-Pathfinder person here who thinks that WOTC catering to fans of older editions is a crappy idea? Is it because that I still have PDF's or hardcopies of older edition materials and other people don't? While I'm thankful for Pathfinder, if a meteor struck their HQ tomorrow and blew it off of the face of the earth I have enough material (six Adventure Paths with a seventh that's almost finished...) that I could run games from here to 2050 if need be. And if you add in my 3.5 library of stuff? OBLIVION.

Not to mention that I pulled my Red Book off of my shelf last week to go through it, feeling a little nostalgic I guess, and realized that I wouldn't want to play that game now anyway. I might use it to introduce my 9 year old to RPG's but for me? Nah. The same thing for 1st and 2nd Ed D&D, for the same reason that I'd use HERO/CHAMPIONS ro M&M for my supers game instead of Villains and Vigilantes or Marvel Super Heroes (FASERIP version). I played those games in my youth. ALOT. But I think game design may have evolved so much since then that I just cant see my self going back. Maybe I will at some point and enjoy it but for right now? NOPE.

WOTC needs to, and I think that they are, focus on selling 4E and making sure that it's successful as possible. 4E being successful has no negative effect on me as someone who supports Pathfinder almost exclusively. The people who are running and playing Pathfinder either DONT WANT to play 4E OR are capable of enjoying BOTH games as well as others. WOTC D&D isnt getting my money (aside from the Castle Ravenloft Boardgame), PAIZO IS. At this point, for me at least, there's very little that's going to change that.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Adventures.

Good adventures are like good novels in that there is always a market for them and the people that buy them will continue to buy them.

Agreed on this point except for the part where WOTC adventures are not that great to begin with. I know during the 3.5 days they tried to claim that adventures dont sell. But people were buying Goodman Games Dungeon Crawl Classics and subscribing to Dungeon to get the adventures there and the AP's.

And now with Paizo the AP's are some of their best sellers. So there is a market for adventures.

Just not adventures from WOTC apparently.

 

[Alzrius]

What exactly can WotC release NOW for 3.5 that they haven't already released previously, or that wasn't filled in by some third party product?

I'd say "adventures," but I think Wicht already did.

There's a reason why all of the examples in my letter were for adventures in other editions.

The reason why WotC moved on from Third Edition was because the had released EVERYTHING they reasonably could have without producing some tiny niche book that only would have sold a hundred copies. What exactly do you expect them to do now?

I don't agree with your premise that that's why WotC released a new edition of the game. Otherwise, see above.

And just because you bring up one other point that gets made often by other people that I really have to bring light to the reality...



What you're basically saying here is that WotC should open up their game so that you don't have to buy any of their products. If OTHER companies could make a wide-ranging amount of 4E products instead, then maybe you'd play the game finally, because you won't play what WotC offers.

But this here exactly highlights why WotC should in no way open up 4E to the OGL. Because if THEIR GAME isn't good enough for you unless you can play other people's version of it... then get lost. You aren't a customer to them. If the work other companies do is so great... then let them create their own games for you to play. Why should WotC have to do all the hard work, while other companies collect all the spoils?

This is a truly amusing amount of vitriol, mostly because it's quite wrong.

First of all, I never said WotC "should" open up 4E under the OGL. I said I'd be turning cartwheels if they did - I also said that I didn't think that was realistic. (As a note, the reason I like this idea (4E under the OGL) is because I support the OGL as its own thing; I think more support for it is a laudable goal in and of itself.)

Secondly, I'm already playing an RPG I'm quite content with, so even if 4E did go OGL, I doubt that'd make me buy it. What'd make me a customer of WotC's again is outlined in my initial post.

Thirdly, last I checked, other companies already were making a wide variety of 4E products under license (albeit not as wide as under the OGL, but still quite an amount). So clearly, this idea that I'll go around buying up 4E products only so long as they're not produced by WotC is false.

In short, you're wildly misreading my last post, and being quite a boor in your response. So, in closing, please follow your own advice and "get lost" from my thread.

 

[Dark Mistress]

But here's the $64,000 question...

What exactly can WotC release NOW for 3.5 that they haven't already released previously, or that wasn't filled in by some third party product?

They could also set up all their older books on a POD set up. I don't buy the, if WoTC did that it would hurt 4e sales. Many people play more games than one. Plus the people that are not playing 4e now but playing Pathfinder or a older edition of DnD would buy those books and still not buy 4e. So no lost sales, it instead with those books already done and money made it would be like free money. To boost WotC bottomline.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Adventures.

Good adventures are like good novels in that there is always a market for them and the people that buy them will continue to buy them.

But they're not even releasing 4E adventures now. If they aren't doing that for their current edition... why would they go back and write 3.5 ones?

And what is wrong with the Pathfinder adventures (or ANY 3.5 adventures released by any of the currently active 3PP companies) that you still want WotC to do it? That's what I don't understand.

What can WotC give you for 3.5 products that you can't get from the companies that are still actively producing OGL material? Why do you need them to backtrack so badly that we keep seeing letters such as these imploring WotC to return to a former form?

 

[DEFCON 1]

Secondly, I'm already playing an RPG I'm quite content with, so even if 4E did go OGL, I doubt that'd make me buy it. What'd make me a customer of WotC's again is outlined in my initial post.

And that's exactly my point. Why do you NEED to be a customer of WotC again? If you are a happy customer of Paizo, then just be a happy customer of Paizo. But I guess there must be some hole in your heart that can't be filled with what Paizo gives you, because you felt the need to bare your soul and write a "love letter" (as you yourself put it) to try and get WotC to change.

 

[Alzrius]

And that's exactly my point. Why do you NEED to be a customer of WotC again? If you are a happy customer of Paizo, then just be a happy customer of Paizo. But I guess there must be some hole in your heart that can't be filled with what Paizo gives you, because you felt the need to bare your soul and write a "love letter" (as you yourself put it) to try and get WotC to change.

I don't NEED to be a customer of WotC again - I'd LIKE to be.

The "hole in my heart" that "can't be filled" and I'm "baring my soul" over is that I wish WotC would do better for both themselves and lapsed customers like me at the same time. I miss things like Dragon Magazine in print format, older-edition adventures, PDFs, etc., and I'm guessing that WotC misses the lost business.

 

[Ourph]

So no lost sales, it instead with those books already done and money made it would be like free money.

There seem to be a lot of people on ENWorld who are experts on generating free money. Maybe you guys should all pool your entrepreneurial talents, make $100 million or so and buy D&D for the good of the hobby.