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BOZ said:
#47
How does this look now?

Aura of Good Omen (Su): A CREATURE continually radiates an aura of good luck that affects creatures in a 30-foot radius. All good-aligned creatures within range (including the CREATURE itself) gain a +2 luck bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and saving throws (these modifiers are not included in the CREATURE's statistics above).
The aura is so strong that it will persist for 1d4 days after a CREATURE is killed. If the CREATURE is still alive, the effects of the aura will remain with an affected creature for 1d4 days after moving out of range if the creature succeeds on a DC 14 Charisma check. The check DC is Charisma-based.

I'm not certain if the DC should increase with HD and a tied ability as normal, after all this creature would want (I guess) good-aligned creatures to keep those boni longer.

Also I purposefully removed the text:
"The aura of good omen and its effects cannot be dispelled or negated by any effect less powerful than an antimagic field."

since a Su ability cannot be normally dispelled, and is always negated by an AMF.

BOZ said:
#49
Is that fine, kind of allowing them to float similarly to a beholder or something?

I don't see a problem with it.

BOZ said:
This might be better off in a more standard format:
Nauseating Gaze (Su): Nauseated for X rounds, 30 feet, Fortitude DC X negates. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Certainly nicer.

BOZ said:
Thanks for the ?typical spells? list. :)

Now you are making me feel bad :heh:, since I just put there the same spells that were mentioned in the original entry.
 

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NexH said:
I'm not certain if the DC should increase with HD and a tied ability as normal, after all this creature would want (I guess) good-aligned creatures to keep those boni longer.

Also I purposefully removed the text:
"The aura of good omen and its effects cannot be dispelled or negated by any effect less powerful than an antimagic field."

since a Su ability cannot be normally dispelled, and is always negated by an AMF.

how bout this then:

Aura of Good Omen (Su): A CREATURE continually radiates an aura of good luck that affects creatures in a 30-foot radius. All good-aligned creatures within range (including the CREATURE itself) gain a +2 luck bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and saving throws (these modifiers are not included in the CREATURE's statistics above).
The aura is so strong that it will persist for 1d4 days after a CREATURE is killed. If the CREATURE is still alive, the effects of the aura will remain with an affected creature for 1d4 days after moving out of range if the creature succeeds on a DC 15 Charisma check.


NexH said:
Now you are making me feel bad :heh:, since I just put there the same spells that were mentioned in the original entry.

sorry - i noticed that after i posted. ;) but eh, you reminded me to do it myself.


#50
I do know that incorporeal creatures use their Dex mods for melee attacks. It has a BAB of +7, and a Dex mod of +2. however, it also has a -1 size mod, thus both melee and range attacks should be at +8.

One issue I had was that it doesn't seem like an incorporeal weapon would harm living creatures (unless they're just the same as ghost touch weapons at that point)? Maybe the "club" and "rock" attacks would make more sense as incorporeal touch attacks that deal damage and drain Con - making them work more like similar undead creatures. Thus:

Attack: Incorporeal greatclub +8 melee touch (2d8 plus 1d6 Constitution drain) or incorporeal rock +8 ranged touch (2d8 plus 1d4 Constitution drain)


Opinion - creatures with a land speed of 40 get a +4 bonus to Jump checks. Given that this one is incorporeal, should I bother mentioning this?


Constitution Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a UNDEAD's incorporeal club must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 17) or suffer 1 d6 points of permanent Constitution score drain. Those hit by a UNDEAD's incorporeal throwing rocks must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 17) or suffer 1d4 points of permanent Constitution drain. Unlike many undead that drain ability points, UNDEAD cannot create spawn.

I totally get where you're coming from with removing the saving throw. Note however, that a wraith allows for a save - it is 5HD and CR 5. Although, you have some creatures like Allips that deal automatic Wis drain (but no physical damage) and shadows deal automatic Str drain in the same manner.


Incorporeal Rock Catching (Su): UNDEAD can catch Small, Medium-size, or Large incorporeal rocks or projectiles. Once per round, a UNDEAD that would normally be hit by an incorporeal rock can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action; DC 1 5 for Small objects, DC 20 for Medium-sized, and DC 25 for Large ones. The UNDEAD must be ready for and aware of the attack. Because of the brutal nature of UNDEAD, this ability is more useful than it might otherwise be since violence frequently erupts between them.
Incorporeal Rock Throwing (Su): UNDEAD are accomplished rock throwers and gain a +1 racial bonus to attack rolls using them as a weapon. The rocks thrown by a UNDEAD are incorporeal, and the UNDEAD can produce them out of thin air.

These abilities are similarly weird, but appear to have more to do with fighting each other - they are very contentious beings and don't even get along with each other.
 
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BOZ said:
how bout this then:

Aura of Good Omen (Su): A CREATURE continually radiates an aura of good luck that affects creatures in a 30-foot radius. All good-aligned creatures within range (including the CREATURE itself) gain a +2 luck bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and saving throws (these modifiers are not included in the CREATURE's statistics above).
The aura is so strong that it will persist for 1d4 days after a CREATURE is killed. If the CREATURE is still alive, the effects of the aura will remain with an affected creature for 1d4 days after moving out of range if the creature succeeds on a DC 15 Charisma check.

Good

BOZ said:
#50
I do know that incorporeal creatures use their Dex mods for melee attacks. It has a BAB of +7, and a Dex mod of +2. however, it also has a -1 size mod, thus both melee and range attacks should be at +8.

Oops, forgot about that also on the rock attack.

BOZ said:
One issue I had was that it doesn't seem like an incorporeal weapon would harm living creatures (unless they're just the same as ghost touch weapons at that point)? Maybe the "club" and "rock" attacks would make more sense as incorporeal touch attacks that deal damage and drain Con - making them work more like similar undead creatures. Thus:

Attack: Incorporeal greatclub +8 melee touch (2d8 plus 1d6 Constitution drain) or incorporeal rock +8 ranged touch (2d8 plus 1d4 Constitution drain)

I can't find any reference to incorporeal weapons being uneffective against corporeal creatures.
In any case I don't see a problem with adding the "touch" to "incorporeal" to make it more standard looking, but i'd change the order to avoid confusions:

"Attack: Greatclub +8 melee incorporeal touch (2d8 plus 1d6 Constitution drain) or incorporeal rock +9 ranged incorporeal touch (2d8 plus 1d4 Constitution drain)

BOZ said:
Opinion - creatures with a land speed of 40 get a +4 bonus to Jump checks. Given that this one is incorporeal, should I bother mentioning this?

I think you shouldn't bother even if the creature weren't incorporeal, since mentioning a skill in the skill entry means the skill is class skill to the creature. So you would be adding a new class skill to the UNDEAD (not that it matters much)

BOZ said:
Constitution Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a UNDEAD's incorporeal club must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 17) or suffer 1 d6 points of permanent Constitution score drain. Those hit by a UNDEAD's incorporeal throwing rocks must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 17) or suffer 1d4 points of permanent Constitution drain. Unlike many undead that drain ability points, UNDEAD cannot create spawn.

I totally get where you're coming from with removing the saving throw. Note however, that a wraith allows for a save - it is 5HD and CR 5. Although, you have some creatures like Allips that deal automatic Wis drain (but no physical damage) and shadows deal automatic Str drain in the same manner.

In the end it is a matter of preference. If the saving thrown is kept then the CR should be reduced to 9.

BOZ said:
Incorporeal Rock Catching (Su): UNDEAD can catch Small, Medium-size, or Large incorporeal rocks or projectiles. Once per round, a UNDEAD that would normally be hit by an incorporeal rock can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action; DC 1 5 for Small objects, DC 20 for Medium-sized, and DC 25 for Large ones. The UNDEAD must be ready for and aware of the attack. Because of the brutal nature of UNDEAD, this ability is more useful than it might otherwise be since violence frequently erupts between them.
Incorporeal Rock Throwing (Su): UNDEAD are accomplished rock throwers and gain a +1 racial bonus to attack rolls using them as a weapon. The rocks thrown by a UNDEAD are incorporeal, and the UNDEAD can produce them out of thin air.

These abilities are similarly weird, but appear to have more to do with fighting each other - they are very contentious beings and don't even get along with each other.

The Incorporeal rock thowing ability is quite useful for this creature. But the Rock Catching, as with normal giants, is not.
 

NexH said:
I think you shouldn't bother even if the creature weren't incorporeal, since mentioning a skill in the skill entry means the skill is class skill to the creature. So you would be adding a new class skill to the UNDEAD (not that it matters much)

actually, that’s not true. Giving a creature ranks in a skill is what makes it a class skill. Quite a few creatures have skills listed on the Skills line that result solely from racial modifiers, synergy bonuses, size modifiers, speed bonuses, etc.
 

BOZ said:
actually, that?s not true. Giving a creature ranks in a skill is what makes it a class skill. Quite a few creatures have skills listed on the Skills line that result solely from racial modifiers, synergy bonuses, size modifiers, speed bonuses, etc.

From the MonstersIntro-A.rtf file of the SRD:

SRD 3.5 said:
Skills
This line gives the creature?s skills, along with each skill?s modifier (including adjustments for ability scores, armor check penalties, and any bonuses from feats or racial traits). All listed skills are class skills, unless the creature has a character class (noted in the entry). A creature?s type and Intelligence score determine the number of skill points it has.
The Skills section of the creature?s description recaps racial bonuses and other adjustments to skill modifiers for the sake of clarity; these bonuses should not be added to the listed skill modifiers.
An asterisk (*) beside the relevant score and in the Skills section of the descriptive text indicates a conditional adjustment, one that applies only in certain situations.

Emphasis mine
So, if I'm reading correctly, the lack of ranks doesn't mean that the creature couldn't have bought them as class skills.
 
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That was clarified/changed in the MM3 glossary. I believe the MM3 glossary is online somewhere on the Wizards site.

hmmm test: [glossary]Class Skill[/glossary]
 

knight, so which is it then? i could have sworn that i read somewhere that the only class skills were the ones with ranks.
 

Knight Otu said:
That was clarified/changed in the MM3 glossary. I believe the MM3 glossary is online somewhere on the Wizards site.

hmmm test: [glossary]Class Skill[/glossary]

Thanks for the link. I stand corrected.

BOZ: according to the glossary only those skills with ranks, racial bonus, and swim for creatures with swim speeds, etc, are considered class skills for creatures.
 

OK, fair enough. :)

so, despite that issue, would it make sense for an incorporeal creature to have a Jump speed bonus, or would its lack of a body be a significant enough impediment towards any sort of normal jumping at all? ;)
 

BOZ said:
OK, fair enough. :)

so, despite that issue, would it make sense for an incorporeal creature to have a Jump speed bonus, or would its lack of a body be a significant enough impediment towards any sort of normal jumping at all? ;)

I'd list it, but whetever an incorporeal creature can jump or not is really up to the DM.
 

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