My Paladin killed a.. 2nd thread (The Verdict is IN - p4)


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Are we going to get to this tonight (EST)? I want to get to bed by 2:00AM...

/totally OOC; my paladin went a week without rest/sustenance for attonement =/

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Torm said:
Okay. I've read all of the other thread this one is based on, and there seems to be a wide variety of opinions - entirely too much information, it seems to me, for what that thread was started for. What he and his DM seemed to be looking for was a trial, of sorts, so I propose we give it to them:

First, go read the initial post in the other thread. Think it over well. Then come back in here in the character of one of your Paladin characters. State your character's name, alignment, and God of allegiance.

The first twelve LG Paladins (I am aware of variant rules and others who call themselves that - only LGs, please.) that come in and sign in will act as a jury. I will be #1:

Sandelphon, Paladin of Torm the True, LG

Herremann Mallaefor, Paladin of Fiarle (An obscure but righteous God whose portfolio includes justice, valour, war, honour, bravery) LG.

I humbly submit myself to this worthy panel.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise


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Kantos, lawful good servant of Wee Jas, at your service.

(and let me tell you, it's EVER so funny to see the look on other players' faces when their trusted paladin friend REBUKES the zombies)

Hemlock Stones

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It is with sad tidings that I have made this journey from the Seventh Realms to make sage counsel regarding the actions in question.

I Gomez de Kollego, Sentinel of Timandra do hereby swear to honor all of my esteemed colleagues with an impartial judgement. I have been a paladin of the Faith (paladin LG 12th) of Timandra and hold the rank of Sentinel.

So Sayeth the Bone Daddy!


Those signed in so far: Barconius, Edmund Edwinson, Gomez de Kollego, Herremann Mallaefor, Kantos, Loric Vilesilencer, Sandelphon, Titian Kerrick, Valentine, & Valna.

Room for two more, everyone. Still waiting on a sign in from Hypersmurf, but he'd better hurry or it looks like it will be gone.

Those who have been confirmed to the list may go ahead and state Guilty or Innocent to the charge of Conduct Unbecoming a Paladin.


I will take this back up at approx 10 AM EST, and I hope for a verdict (and sentencing, if necessary) to be reached by tommorrow night. Thanks.

P.S. Even if you are planning on voting Innocent, DO be thinking about what penalty you might want to suggest should it go to that phase.... G'night.


Sir Abraxas of Mishtan, Inquisitor of Osiris. (Paladin, 13th, LG)

I humbly submit myself to bring the impartiality of Osiris to the panel.


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The man acted with valour and righteousness. The evil scumbag was caught in the middle of an evil act. I wouldn't care if the girl were his slave and he had the legal right to rape her, the Paladin acted Justly.

If, for whatever reason, a guilty verdict is rendered, I move that he be censured and forced to serve penance by aiding the penitent in their road to Righteousness. He should be forced to serve as guard to one who has renounced his evil ways and is on a quest of atonement. This would allow the Paladin in question to observe and aid one who is seeking to reject Darkness and turn to the Light.

I look forward to everyone's response.


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Torm said:
Those who have been confirmed to the list may go ahead and state Guilty or Innocent to the charge of Conduct Unbecoming a Paladin.

Guilty, however understandably so. He did not need to kill, and did so without considering his actions beyond their immediate consequences. As it was his choice to cut down a man who may have had accomplices, what those accomplices do next is on the paladin's head.


Most Powerful Lord Trom,

I submit that the paladin in question is, in fact, guilty of not living up to the standard required of him, for the reasons which I briefly discussed earlier.

A paladin is a warrior, true--the strong arm of righteousness. But in our essence, we are protectors. We stand in front of the Light and protect it from the Darkness. We do not "walk the line"--we are the line. The paladin in question acted as a warrior first and a protector second.

Titian Kerrick, paladin, son of Lord Thaddeus Kerrick


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Pen and paper only or are message board games permitted?

Pellenor, Paladin of Heironeous from the lands of Ballantine (homebrew using the Greyhawk Pantheon)


Sir Rhy Abberach of the Holy Order of the Sword, A welsh Christian Knight who appeared as an NPC in the background of a Rolemaster PC I played and was my character in the Paladins of the Board PbP about four years ago.


"Thank you my Lords for allowing me to concisely address the issue of guilt or innocence in this particular case.

The striking down and decapitation of an unarmed man previous to an announcement of purpose and intent is a dishonourable act. It has not rendered the law the respect it deserves and is an act formally unbecoming of a person of our august station. It is an act committed through chaotic emotion rather than considered and just thought. It is an act made with numerous assumptions and with disregard for the victim, the alleged transgressor, the law and the Church and God to which the Paladin professes to follow.

While there are mitigating circumstances, any commendation due is forfeit because of the lack of wisdom and foresight displayed. While I do not wish to preach to you, my honoured peers, it must be stated that we as Paladins must be above reproach in regard to the law and the codes we follow. To ignore this is to cheapen the efforts of ourselves, our forefathers and the honoured and divine people that have gone before us in service to our righteous deities.

Hence, I have no choice but to announce as a representative of Fiarle and the Pride of the Lion the formal pronouncement of guilty."

[Vocal] This is accompanied by the approving roar of Alla’ Mombassa, Celestial Dire Lion mount, friend and eternal companion of Herremann Mallaefor [Vocal].
[Vision] A light shines down upon the pair as a formal blessing from Fiarle is given [Vision].

Hemlock Stones

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What I considered important to whether or not Vindicator’s Conduct was Unbecoming a Paladin:

Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Good characters and creatures protect innocent life. Evil characters and creatures debase or destroy innocent life, whether for fun or profit.
“Good” implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.
“Evil” implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient.
LAW VS. CHAOS“Law” implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.

I believe that the conduct of Vindicator was abrupt and sudden. Yet by the very tenets we owe our existence, Vindicator was reasonable in his actions. Therefore he is innocent and his conduct acceptable under the Paladin's Code of Conduct.

However, the community standards, (local legal customs) were not followed and thus broken by Vindicator. The paladin Vindicator must make restitution to the family of the deceased equivalent to the wages and earning that the deceased would have accrued over their shortened lifetime. Further, the girl that was saved, if she has no surviving family or no one will take her in, must be raised by the paladin Vindicator.

I arrived at my decision based on my interpretation of all of the passages that were in bold above as it related to the situation that took place.

...and the Bone Daddy decreed: "Let the man go free!"
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Sir Rhys Abberach of the Holy Order of the Sword.

The man in question acted justly but without forethought or consideration for the wider effects of his actions. His actions usurped the role of the secular arm of governance to whom it is given to wield the sword for the punishment of evil and therebye brought the system of justice and retribution established by the power of heaven into disrepute and deprived the people of an opportunity to see and participate in the administration of justice.

In light of this, I must hold him guilty of negligence and rash action and recommend that he be ordered to do penance as appropriate to his station. Were he under my command, he would learn humility and consideration in the scullery of the order for a month and then complete a pilgrimage to Rome. To Torm, the appointed agent of justice in the land of Toril, I recommend that the accused be reprimanded and sent upon a pilgrimage or quest that will bring order to a lawless population in your land.

Edit: I hope I haven't spoken out of turn but I'm going to bed, the last message said that there's two slots left. I've spoilered my character's judgement so that, in the event that Torm finds him ineligable to render judgement, it will not unduly influence events.
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Valentine's say.


In my oppinion the paladin in question acted prudently and justly given the situation at hand. I think there can be little doubt as to the deceased's guilt in the several heinous wrongs that had been brought upon the girl - kidnapping and multiple rape being the most obvious. When the paladin came upon the man about to further brutalize the girl, the man did not pose a threat to the paladin. He did, however, pose a very real and probable threat to the restrained child. Rather than risk possible harm to the girl, the paladin cut the man down.

The paladin chose not to use non-lethal force upon the man, and frankly I feel that it was well within his right to decide whether or not to do so. Were the situation different, and the child not immediatly at risk, non-lethal measures would have proven more gainful, as the wrong-doer could then be restrained and questioned about any possible accomplices or other victims he had stored elsewhere. But that wasn't the situation that was given.

Some may speak of capturing the criminal and bringing him to a public trial to recieve his punishment. Let me preface my following comments by saying that amongst my other duties, I am a servant of the Lord of Justice, Tyr. I have had to deal with similar situations in the past where punishment had to be handed out without the luxury of a detailed judiciary system to dole out exactly what amercement fit the exact combination of crimes commited. That being said, most punishments tend to fall into one of several common categories no matter where you go:

Monetary fines or recompense.
Public humiliation.

A fine or public humiliation would be ... inadequate ... given the crimes this man visited upon his victim. Laughably so. Maiming would probably had sufficed had he commited only one of his misdeeds; his eyes struck had he only kidnapped the girl, his manhood seared off with irons had he commited a single rape. The fact that he performed several crimes, and their nature, would mean that any punishment by maiming would just compound upon one another until such punishment would be tantamount to execution. Frankly, the man's actions set him to die, be it by headsman's axe, hot irons, or a paladin's wrath.

A public trial would indeed likely serve to strengthen local order's protection of the populace by demonstrating just what happens to you when you do evil unto your fellow man. But that ultimatly doesn't matter; such a public message was not the paladin's concern when he came upon the rapist and his victim - his only concern was the welfare of the child, and rightly so.

So again, in summation, I believe that the paladin acted in a manner that is befitting of a soldier of the light; protecting the weak and innocent from the depredations of the wicked. I would, and do find him innocent of any misconduct.

As I was also requested to provide what punishmen I feel would be appropriate should a verdict of guilty be reached, I will endeavor to do so. Firstly, I do not feel that a stripping of the paladin's status as such should be levied, whatsoever. The paladin did not commit an evil act, he did not grossly violate his code of conduct, and so on. I would move that a fitting punishment would be for a temporary reduction or inaccessability of certain powers to be weighed unto the paladin until such time that he completes a task that is fitting to the situation that landed him in such hot water in the first place.

Therefor, my suggestion for possible punishment of the paladin would be either:

A) In the event that the child victim has no family or guardian, that the paladin be responsible for the care and upbringing of said child, with special attention being given that the child be raised to be an ethical and meritous young woman. Until such time that she is able to take care of herself as a capable young adult, the paladin should have no access to his holy mount. This is to represent that the paladin has chosen to bear the burden of the girl's welfare himself rather than rely on others to render aid.

B) In the event that the child is possessed of family or guardian, then the paladin should instead be charged with insuring that the dead rapist did not have any accomplices or other victims hidden away elsewhere. He would likewise be required to see any such men brought to justice, and any innocents in their custody released and tended to. During this ordeal, and until such time as it is complete to his god's satisfaction, the paladin should have no access to his ability to detect evil. This would represent that if that paladin did indeed wish to enter into this situation blindly, then he will see it thru to its completion in the exact same manner.

I have said my peace and look forward to your responses, one and all. Thank you.
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Raguel Richmond

Raguel Richmond, 11th-level Paladin of Baern (homebrew using this Pantheon) and Kingdom of Kalamar map.

Of this order I am made one,
From Mankind to guard this place
That through their Guilt they have foregone,
For they have forfeited His Grace;
Therefore all this must they shun
Or else my Sword they shall embrace
And myself will be their Foe
To flame them in the Face.

He didn't get his calling until he 43 years old. So he isn't naive. His profession was a jeweler.

His holy sword is named Lexa, she was a paladin from 5000 years ago.

Raguel's special mount is a Dire Lion named Keesha.

Peace and smiles :)



Conduct unbecoming to a paladin: Guilty

My lords, it is with great reluctance that I vote to condemn a fellow man. And yet I know full well that the calling of a paladin ofttimes demands that hard choices be made with great urgency and too little knowledge. If I am in such a case, and act in the best of good faith, and turn out to be wrong, I hope not to be condemned. Does that not mean that if I act in bad faith or with unjustified haste, the chance that I turn out to be right cannot acquit me? We must judge our brother on his actions in his circumstances, not on their result.

I cannot in accordance with my oath declare that it is becoming in a paladin to strike down a defenceless man, from behind, without warning.

I cannot in accordance with my oath declare that it is becoming in a paladin to hold a trial in such shabby, disgraceful, unedifying circumstances, with so little regard for propriety and due form.

I cannot in accordance with my oath declare that it is becoming in a paladin to pass judgement without allowing the defence to speak.

I cannot in accordance with my oath declare that it is becoming in a paladin to kill when it is not needful to do so.

I cannot in accordance with my oath declare that it is becoming in a paladin to give up hope in the justice of the courts without he has put them to the test.

And thereore upon my conscience I must declare that he is guilty: of conduct unbecoming in a paladin. And may God have mercy upon both our souls.
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Master Edwinson, given that you feel the paladin in question is indeed guilty of conduct unbecoming, what do you believe would be appropriate penance for our brother, in order for him to regain his good standing?
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Hemlock Stones

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Penalty If Guilty


The lateness of the hour hath made me slip in the event that Vindicator is found guilty of Conduct Unbecoming a Paladin.

What penance can a headstrong paladin be made to suffer that will reasonably vex him with regards to his stature? If the justice he meted out be deemed wrong, then he can no longer be considered worthy of passing judgement on others.

The very code we fight the struggle of Good vs. Evil with empowers a paladin to strike instantly for justice with the might of their deity behind them. Such powers must be wielded discrimnately lest an innocent be struck down in error.

Vindicator is still of a noble spirit. The struggles he has won before do not go unheralded. Whatever manner of weapon Vindicator used in this vile deed he can never wield again. (-6 to attacks and damage with whatever weapon it was; if it was a broadsword, he can no longer use a broadsword. In addition if the weapon he used in the vile deed was magical, it should now be considered a Cursed Peasant Slayer and gain a bonus to attack and damage equal to the levels the paladin loses. See below.) May the vigor of Vindicator be taken and sown into the fields of wisdom. (Permanent loss of two points of Strength; Permanent gain of one point of Wisdom) The master that bore you into the ranks of truth bringers has failed to guide you well. You must discover the grains of truth you neglected. (Lose two levels of paladin for every one that the peasant had up to a maximum of four levels lost. This is a level drain with all of the usual HP losses etc.)

As a final act of attonement, the cursed Peasant Slayer weapon must be destroyed in the nearest magical weapon destroying volcanoe by the hand of Vindicator. Failure to do this before the anniversary of the vile deed will result in the bearer of the sword becoming a vessel for the spirit and soul of the slain peasant.

Lord Gomez de Kollego,
Sentinel of Timandra


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(OOC - Headed off to bed. G'night, all. )
(OOC - You know, in retrospect, I have no bloody clue as to why I posed this. Like I couldn't have gone to bed without saying something? *boggle*)
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