My players are in a wee bit of trouble...

[bargle0]

Let the party live and die by their own decisions. Sometimes we need to throw away the notion of scaling encounters to PCs, particularly if they've decided to press the issue with an NPC that they know to be powerful beyond their ability.

If they somehow pull out a win, it will be truly epic. Don't rob that from them.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

As Karin's Dad pointed out, the whiff-fest that is likely to result from tackling such a high-level foe with unhittable defences won't be an enjoyable one for the PCs unless they quickly get the idea that they should retreat.

If the object becomes merely survival, it's not so bad. In one of the games I play in, our characters consisted of four 9th level PCs, one 10th level, and two 8th level NPCs. We were investigating an evil temple, and triggered its defences - 6 Stone Golems. Level 17 elites, a full encounter that was about 9 or 10 levels higher than us. According to the Encounter Builder tool, it's about a level 20 encounter.

Long story short, we survived for about 3 rounds, playing mostly defensive, and escaped with a couple PCs being carried out, unconscious/dying, by other PCs. Some risks were taken, and thanks to some lucky critical hits by the party barbarian, we managed to destroy one of them, but it was pretty close. We made heavy use of control effects that had nice miss effects (the 1st level wizard daily, "Grease" was instrumental in our escape, for example).

Anyway, good luck and keep us posted on how it goes!

 

[S'mon]

I've been using a standard PC sheet for Reymus which I'll simplify, .

It will be very swingy then, lone PCs are eggshells with hammers. He could be killed straight off by a couple lucky crits, or he can kill a PC in one round; do that 3 times in a row and he's home free.

Personally it sounds like fun, but it will run like a 3e boss battle, not a 4e battle.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

In 4e, I feel like it's just not a good idea to stat an opponent using player character creation options. I'd rather use a solo who's been designed to feel like a high-level fighter, rather than an actual high-level fighter who hasn't been designed to face 5 PCs at a time.

I wouldn't simplify, though. I'd make a complex 'monster' with the stats of a level 14 solo, at least 4 different encounter attacks, 2 encounter reactions, and some way to wipe conditions. Just make his various powers seem like they're special attacks, and you'll get the right flavor.

I completely agree.

I've been using a standard PC sheet for Reymus which I'll simplify, but I'm unlikely to convert him to a normal solo per se; he needs to give the impression of someone with a lot of experience and tricks up his sleeve.

If you change your mind, I write or rewrite 90% of the foes I use in my own campaigns, and I'd be happy to help you in the next couple of weeks. I love NPC/monster design, and I consider this a worthy challenge.

 

[S'mon]

There are about 30 other Guardsmen in the tower, and frankly, I think there's a pretty good chance he could kill all of them -- including the PCs.
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Sound like the police station massacre from The Terminator. Might be worth a skill challenge if the PCs try to escape.

 

[Piratecat]

I think the weird challenge here is that I don't want this to be a fair fight. The PCs shouldn't be able to beat this guy. If they do, it's going to be a triumph. But that's creating weird dissonance for me between good gameplay and how I've created the world.

 

[Saagael]

I think the weird challenge here is that I don't want this to be a fair fight. The PCs shouldn't be able to beat this guy. If they do, it's going to be a triumph. But that's creating weird dissonance for me between good gameplay and how I've created the world.

Then make it not fair. If you don't mind another anecdote, a few months ago I threw my freshly level 21 players up against a level 27 elite that could Power Word: Kill PCs with 2 or fewer healing surges. This resulted in 2 PCs and 2 important NPCs dying, and the rest being very close to death.

Their only option when this guy showed up midst a larger battle was flee before he killed all the players (I think they all had 1 or 0 healing surges).

So my suggestion is that you give this guy an instant-kill power. No, its not something 4e does, but in this case, it represents his immense skill. Call it "coup de grace". Have it only usable on bloodied PCs, or PCs with low healing surges (the characters are weakened and wounded, now he can take them out easily).

The players should realize that they can't win against this guy with his awesome defenses and attack bonus and an instant-kill attack. Start a skill challenge for them to surrender. If they succeed, the bad guy lets them go as he has more important things to deal with. If they fail, have him attack for another round or two and the players need to make a combat retreat.

 

[OnlineDM]

I think the weird challenge here is that I don't want this to be a fair fight. The PCs shouldn't be able to beat this guy. If they do, it's going to be a triumph. But that's creating weird dissonance for me between good gameplay and how I've created the world.

I think your mindset is correct. If the PCs face this guy in a fair fight, it should be hopeless. They should either die, realize that it's hopeless and retreat, or find a way to make the fight unfair in their favor (and it would have to be a big deal, not just a way to get permanent combat advantage or +5 to damage rolls or something).

I don't think you need to set the window for advantage up for them; it's up to them to come up with a way to completely change the battle in their favor (recruit celestial allies, knock the tower down with BBEG in it, find the BBEG's kryptonite, etc.). If they can't do that (and there's no reason to EXPECT that they can), then they retreat or die.

Maybe your players will surprise and delight you with something desperate and crazy and effective. And if they don't, then their characters retreat or die. I don't think it's up to you to give them a way to win. They're punching way, way above their weight class here. That's a bad decision on their part unless they find an ace up their sleeves.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I think the weird challenge here is that I don't want this to be a fair fight. The PCs shouldn't be able to beat this guy. If they do, it's going to be a triumph. But that's creating weird dissonance for me between good gameplay and how I've created the world.

Well if you don't want it to be a fair fight, I don't see a problem. As long as your players know it'll be unfair, or have an opportunity to escape after they find out, all's fair in dungeons and dragons. Even if it's not fair. If you want the PCs to have a shot of winning, I'd leave it up to them to come up with some crazy scheme like OnlineDM says.

Are your players the Kick Down the Door, Win or Die types?

 

[KidSnide]

I've done some work on how to fight groups of PCs with much higher level NPCs. My solution (as I tend to have larger parties) is to stat the character as a super-solo. That is to say, use solo-base stats with a mixture of high-level encounter and daily powers (that are re-chargable as appropriate), with an appropriate number of area/close powers, and attacks with minor/move/immediate actions. Also give the solo the ability to shed a single condition at the beginning of the solo's turn. Then double the solo hit points and provide "bruised" and "badly bloodied" markers at 1/4 and 3/4 hit points (so the PCs can sense progress), and give the NPC two initiate points in the order.

That generates a character that can absorb a massive amount of abuse (and free himself from nasty Daily-power conditions) and dish it out similarly. Also note that an NPC like this needs to have a crap-load of different powers. A fight like this takes a long time (if you're fighting to the end), and you need to keep it interesting. Fortunately, it seems like you're already there. Terrifying, hideously powerful and yet affectable is the balance that you want to be going for.

The "bruised" and "badly bloodied" markers are also important. They provide a fantastic "oh sh#t" moment, when they think the solo might be getting closed to bloodied and are then told, "you've hit the 1/4 mark". That moment is key, as it (a) gives you a chance to watch your players soil themselves and (b) gives them a chance to execute a "run away" contingency early enough in the combat that some of them have a good chance of making it. If they do decide to fight it out, it's a well-informed decision.

For the terrain, I'd make sure that there are good semi-defensible places for the ranged PCs to hole-up. That's not because you want to let them hole up there, but because you want to provide a place they can feel secure. That way, when the NPC (who needs at least one good movement power, btw) attacks the secure location, the player of the ranged PC feels the danger of being flushed out into the open. And, obviously, a good plan for pushing PCs off the tower is in order. That's presumably going to be happening a lot....

For their allies, I'd stat them up as a collection of fragile minions with abilities that help the PCs and a 2-3 simple "swarm" NPCs that can absorb a little punishment.

-KS