D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Cadence]

Players get to determine the inner world and backstory of their characters. End of sentence. Unless magic is involved on some level, I do not tell my players how to react, or how to feel.

Lots of people do things in there home games that have no basis in the rules Thank goodness. It seems to make a lot of DMs and players happy when they do!!!!

Except about Halflings apparently.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Doesn't matter to Chaosmancer. A couple of weeks ago (way back on page 84), I pointed out places where the frightened condition called for a save other than Will (such as with a demilich), pointing out how halflings would get the bonus to save against it but gnomes wouldn't. Didn't matter. Chaosmancer is convinced that all things that cause the frightened condition are magical in nature because that's the only thing that explains why the valiant orc barbarian would run away from a dragon while the halfling wouldn't.

They also seem to think that having nonmagical effects that cause the frightened condition is "homebrewing" and therefore you're not allowed to bring them into consideration when discussing halflings because reasons. They grudgingly allowed it for orange grungs, who cause fear on a failed Con save, because that was poison.

Wow.

To give a more accurate version @carkl3000 Faolyn offered a few different alternative saves. Most of those came from unique monsters in adventure books that I have not read or have access to. So, I admitted my ignorance in that matter.

The Demilich howl drops people to 0 hp if they fail the Con save. Sure, it could be "so scared you die" but... I'm pretty sure that most people aren't so scared of a screaming skull that it kills them. Feels like it really should be a magical effect, doesn't it? Otherwise a lot more people would be killed during Halloween. And it being a Con save seems more resolved around that 0 hp trigger.

Oh, and the homebrew I mentioned was Faolyn fully admitting to a homebrew rule for things like seeing an army and getting the frightened condition. They said it was a "common honmebrew rule" if memory serves me. So, yes, in discussing whether or not there were any RAW examples of non-magical fear, I did not accept homebrew fear rules as an example. The Grung I accepted, because it was based on their mucus, making it a drug, not magic.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's weird to see a claim that you've badly misunderstood something...

followed immediately by a near exact restatement of your expressed understanding...

followed immediately by a defense against an argument you didn't make..

Should have known better.

Are you perhaps confused because I seperated "individual player character" from "race of people"?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Lots of people do things in there home games that have no basis in the rules Thank goodness. It seems to make a lot of DMs and players happy when they do!!!!

Except about Halflings apparently.

If your players are happy with the DM telling them how their characters feel and react to the game world, then I'm glad you find your joy. I expierenced that first hand, with a fellow player rolling initiidation and telling me how my character was now pants-wettingly terrified of theirs, because they gave me a look and rolled a 33 on their intimidation. I was not scared, I just rolled by eyes and let them have their little fantasy because neither they nor the DM get to tell me what my character feels.

 

[Cadence]

If your players are happy with the DM telling them how their characters feel and react to the game world, then I'm glad you find your joy. I expierenced that first hand, with a fellow player rolling initiidation and telling me how my character was now pants-wettingly terrified of theirs, because they gave me a look and rolled a 33 on their intimidation. I was not scared, I just rolled by eyes and let them have their little fantasy because neither they nor the DM get to tell me what my character feels.

My earlier example of a big intimidation role by an NPC momentarily stopping the party seems a bit different to me than another player saying you wet your pants in terror and the DM just letting it go by. :: shrugs ::

Technically, the Frightened condition doesn't have one wetting their pants either. If a magical effect gives someone the "Frightened" condition it just gives them disadvantage on Ability Checks and Attack rolls, and can't willingly move closer to the source of its fear. You could stand there yelling really brave insults and shooting at the BBEG in defiance.

 

[carkl3000]

Weird, I wonder why non-magical fear of a monster doesn't trigger if you are 21 ft away from it. And it only works if they start their turn within 20 ft, ending within 20 ft doesn't trigger it. Also, they are only frightened until the start of their next turn. So, after being frightened for 6 seconds, if I move back a single foot, I'm no longer scared.

My daughter has a debilitating fear of stinging insects. If a wasp gets too close to her, she freaks out. If the wasp flies away she feels better.

This sounds it is clearly not a magical aura that only affects a certain area at all. /Heavy Sarcasm

Yeah, it doesn't say "magical" but it doesn't say Paladin auras are magical either, yet I've never heard a good explanation why standing next to one makes your body process poison faster.



Yes, because magic isn't taking away their autonomy to decide their character's emotional state, it is overriding it. I'm also fine with fear from poisons and drugs for the same reason.

I'm saying that in the real world, people often don't have the autonomy to "decide" their own emotional state. Fear is a physiological response. It is not always rational and the triggers are not always predictable.

Right. They also don't get to choose that their parents were happily married until their mother left to go on an adventure and never returned, so you left home to go and find her and make sure she is safe.

That's a non sequitur and I don't really even understand the point you are trying to make. A baseball bat can cause unconsciousness in a similar way that a revolting image, or terrifying enemy (or a poison or drug... I guess?) can cause incapacitating fear. It is physiological.

Players get to determine the inner world and backstory of their characters. End of sentence. Unless magic is involved on some level, I do not tell my players how to react, or how to feel.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

My daughter has a debilitating fear of stinging insects. If a wasp gets too close to her, she freaks out. If the wasp flies away she feels better.

Perhaps they're magical wasps?

 

[carkl3000]

Wow.

To give a more accurate version @carkl3000 Faolyn offered a few different alternative saves. Most of those came from unique monsters in adventure books that I have not read or have access to. So, I admitted my ignorance in that matter.

The Demilich howl drops people to 0 hp if they fail the Con save. Sure, it could be "so scared you die" but... I'm pretty sure that most people aren't so scared of a screaming skull that it kills them. Feels like it really should be a magical effect, doesn't it? Otherwise a lot more people would be killed during Halloween. And it being a Con save seems more resolved around that 0 hp trigger.

Oh, and the homebrew I mentioned was Faolyn fully admitting to a homebrew rule for things like seeing an army and getting the frightened condition. They said it was a "common honmebrew rule" if memory serves me. So, yes, in discussing whether or not there were any RAW examples of non-magical fear, I did not accept homebrew fear rules as an example. The Grung I accepted, because it was based on their mucus, making it a drug, not magic.

I have no problem with DMs making their own rulings that are counter to what's in the book. If you want there to be no non-magical fear in your game that's your decision. I just don't think that that's the RAW, or the RAI, or that it makes role-play bad, or that it's somehow contrary to the way that fear works in the real world...

 

[Yaarel]

I have no problem with DMs making their own rulings that are counter to what's in the book. If you want there to be no non-magical fear in your game that's your decision. I just don't think that that's the RAW, or the RAI, or that it makes role-play bad, or that it's somehow contrary to the way that fear works in the real world...

Nonmagical fear can be RAW. For example, if I allow Intimidate to frighten a beast away, the DM is supposed to interpret and decide how to use skills. Different DMs have different styles, but this is RAW.

 

[carkl3000]

Nonmagical fear can be RAW. For example, if I allow Intimidate to frighten a beast away, the DM is supposed to interpret and decide how to use skills. Different DMs have different styles, but this is RAW.

I agree. I tend to think that "frightened" is non-magical unless a stat block specifies that it is magical.