D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Chaosmancer]

The suggestions to remove them from future iterations of the PHB effectively does remove them from a lot of games.

And I believe the only one to express that is Hussar, who said that was only if we left halflings completely static and unchanged, since it would then become clear that WoTC has no desire to do anything with them.

The rest of us haven't said they should be removed from the PHB.

 

[Chaosmancer]

If there were useful mechanics for social reactions, sorta like adding Fear to the Ideal and Flaw section of the character sheet, I would be into using Persuasion to charm and Intimidation to frighten the player characters.

Heh, of course, I myself would abuse this with the most obscure unlikely-to-encounter Fear possible. So, not exactly this, but something like this.

Charm almost works to play on someones Ideal, while Frighten almost works to play on someones Flaw. But not quite.

I would not be. Allowing the player to decide how they react to a social scene is more important that trying to shoe-in some rolls where they do not belong.

 

[Chaosmancer]

RE - "How characters feel"

DM: "Something happens to <character name's> arm."

Player: "What was it? Do I feel anything?"

DM: "I can't tell you what your character feels, you tell me."

Player: "How can I do that if I don't know what it is? I look, what do I see?"

DM: "Two puncture marks about 1/4 inch in diameter and an inch apart?"

Player: "Does it hurt!?!?"

DM: "Does it? Roll a con save please."

Player: "You're scaring me!"

DM: "That's all you. What was the roll?"

Physical Pain =/= emotional responses

 

[Hussar]

I pointed out all the named halfling NPCs in fourteen different published adventures. I pointed out how, in at least one of those adventures, there were as many named halflings NPCs as there were dwarf NPCs, and more than there were tiefling and dragonborn NPCs.

Here, I recounted the number of halflings Storm King's Thunder. I counted nine named living halflings (Oren, Taela, Sevembra, Lily, Koggin, Nelkin, Herivin, Roderik, and Finn); Taela's four kids; plus Larlow and Keltar, who are dead; 1d4+2 halfling prisoners, 4 halfling slaves; plus mentions of Silbar, a halfling pirate; and it mentions that there are populations of halflings in most human settlements and that halfling homesteads are "not uncommon" and are well-hidden.

Why are you continue to insist that they aren't including halflings in their adventures?!

The last time I pointed this out, you vanished into lurking. Are you going to do that again?

You're absolutely right. You did. And, yes, I misspoke. I said that there no halflings in those adventures and that is wrong. There are halflings. Granted, most of them play absolutely no role, and are quite likely completely unrelated to the adventure, but, yup, there are named halflings in some of the WotC adventures. Of course, your post here is a little misleading since you are listing hafsllings from various modules, not just Storm King's Thunder - I believe you are listing three modules in the above quote - Storm King's Thunder, Rime and Ghosts of Saltmarsh? And, I'll admit, while I remember you looking at those three modules, I missed the post where you went through 14 adventures. I know that I went through all the WotC adventures, save Rime, and posted a listing of all the times the word halfling was used in the modules.

Y'know, since we're being pretty exacting with our language and all. Wouldn't want to let something slip by.

But, maybe, just maybe, you could actually address the point instead of insisting on pedantic nit-picking? There are modules, like Dungeon of the Mad Mage, where dwarves are mentioned more times than every mention of halflings combined. So, it's not like dwarves need more presence. And, outside of a couple of modules, dwarves are mentioned considerably more than halflings.

Hey, let's go back to Ghosts of Saltmarsh for a second. 25% of villages outside of Saltmarsh are halfling villages. What does that look like? What does a halfling village look like? I mean, if I tell you there's an elven village, there's a bajillion images, books, movies, whatnot, that I could draw upon as inspiration for what that village looks like. So, pretend I don't know Tolkien for a moment. I'm a new gamer. What does a halfling village look like? Can you describe it to me without referencing Tolkien? So, no round door hobbit holes. That's Tolkien, not D&D. And folks here are pretty emphatic that halflings aren't just from Tolkien but have a real, clear place in D&D. So, what do those villages look like?

Heck, better yet, you can only describe that halfling village using D&D 5e books. I KNOW that I can do that with dwarves and elves and humans. No problem at all. So, only referencing published 5e material, what does a halfling village look like?

 

[Hussar]

I agree. I tend to think that "frightened" is non-magical unless a stat block specifies that it is magical.

You do realize that you've pointed out a grey area in the rules and that ruling either way is just as supported - as in not supported at all by the rules. Fitting with the whole "Rulings not rules" schtick. But, your ruling is no more or less "official" than mine so any claim to a universal rule here is right out the window. At best you can says is, "At my table ..."

 

[Chaosmancer]

Diplomats are not just passive messengers, at times they need to force compromise. There's a difference between likeable and persuasive. There are times when a diplomat needs to take the hard stands and say "no" to people that aren't used to hearing that word. But just as important it pushed them to the front and center of politics and world affairs.

So... are you trying to say that Halflings couldn't say "No" to people? Remember that bit in the halfling PHB where it says they don't really respect the titles of nobility or royalty? The ability to simply tell a king no is something I'd expect more out of a halfling than anyone else.

Also, remember that lightfoots get that whole +1 Cha, which covers persusasion, intimidation, deception... but not likeability.

So, again, I'm really not seeing how your position is more than "your change isn't allowed to change them" even though all the neccessary parts are right and it just takes a small tweak to make it work. Does it make them more important than they currently are? Yes. Because right now they are basically non-existent. And if you still want to play a halfling who grew up on a farm and has no place in the wider world than the square acre they farm, overlooked and out-of-sight of the world... then you can totally still do so. Just because some halflings are out there doing things doesn't mean others aren't at home, living simple lives.

It's the opposite of their current niche. As far as lore keepers go, enjoying stories and having a verbal history is not the same as being interested in the politics and goings-on of the outer world. Halflings may not be complete isolationists like many of the races in D&D, but again making them lore keepers for world events goes pretty contrary to their country bumpkin appeal.

You want to have country-bumpkin halflings? You can still have country-bumpkin halflings.

But you are kind of saying the quiet part out loud here, I bolded it, but I'll quote it as well " goings-on of the outer world" This is something that I cannot abide. If the halflings are ignoring the "outer world" then they are not part of it. If no one bothers with halflings, and halflings don't look beyond the borders of their towns, then all you are doing is creating little pocket dimensions within the game world. And being that disconnected from the rest of the world is a bad sign.

Halflings being content with what they have is part of what sets them apart from the other races. They're happy and content because they don't care about the rat race. If the Jones's have a bigger house or fancy furniture, you're happy for them but there is no drive to keep up with them.

And nothing I'm proposing has them part of that rat race. But it seems you want to take it further than that. You want them to not care about their neighbors either. Or about the people struggling the next county over. You want them to ignore the wider world in favor of their tiny village.

And you say that works for you, but you can't seem to accept that it doesn't make for good worldbuilding, and it doesn't work for those of us who want halflings to actually exist in the world, not beside it.

 

[Hussar]

The suggestions to remove them from future iterations of the PHB effectively does remove them from a lot of games.

Why?

I'm the one who has talked about this. AFAIK, I'm the only one, so, if folks could keep it straight, that would be great.

But, again, why? I said that the stats should be included (granted, I said Monster Manual and should have said DMG, my bad). So, it's not like those who want to play halflings are losing anything. They still can, exactly the same way that many races in the MM are playable because of that table in the DMG.

Or are you saying that the only reason that people play halflings at all is because of the prominent place they are given in the PHB and really have nothing at all to do with the race itself? IOW, halflings, as little played as they are (yup, I'll go with 6% to make the pedants here happy - because that 1% is ALL IMPORTANT), they would be even less played if they weren't headlining the game? They cannot stand on their own?

 

[Oofta]

So... are you trying to say that Halflings couldn't say "No" to people? Remember that bit in the halfling PHB where it says they don't really respect the titles of nobility or royalty? The ability to simply tell a king no is something I'd expect more out of a halfling than anyone else.

Also, remember that lightfoots get that whole +1 Cha, which covers persusasion, intimidation, deception... but not likeability.

So, again, I'm really not seeing how your position is more than "your change isn't allowed to change them" even though all the neccessary parts are right and it just takes a small tweak to make it work. Does it make them more important than they currently are? Yes. Because right now they are basically non-existent. And if you still want to play a halfling who grew up on a farm and has no place in the wider world than the square acre they farm, overlooked and out-of-sight of the world... then you can totally still do so. Just because some halflings are out there doing things doesn't mean others aren't at home, living simple lives.



You want to have country-bumpkin halflings? You can still have country-bumpkin halflings.

But you are kind of saying the quiet part out loud here, I bolded it, but I'll quote it as well " goings-on of the outer world" This is something that I cannot abide. If the halflings are ignoring the "outer world" then they are not part of it. If no one bothers with halflings, and halflings don't look beyond the borders of their towns, then all you are doing is creating little pocket dimensions within the game world. And being that disconnected from the rest of the world is a bad sign.



And nothing I'm proposing has them part of that rat race. But it seems you want to take it further than that. You want them to not care about their neighbors either. Or about the people struggling the next county over. You want them to ignore the wider world in favor of their tiny village.

And you say that works for you, but you can't seem to accept that it doesn't make for good worldbuilding, and it doesn't work for those of us who want halflings to actually exist in the world, not beside it.

Once again, you speak from on high as if only you have the corner on facts: "... but you can't seem to accept that it doesn't make for good worldbuilding ..." What you can't seem to accept is the difference between your opinion and facts. I think halflings work just fine. If we change halflings to what you want, I would not like them and they would no longer be an iconic race.

You can't please everyone. Get over yourself.

 

[Oofta]

...
Or are you saying that the only reason that people play halflings at all is because of the prominent place they are given in the PHB and really have nothing at all to do with the race itself? IOW, halflings, as little played as they are (yup, I'll go with 6% to make the pedants here happy - because that 1% is ALL IMPORTANT), they would be even less played if they weren't headlining the game? They cannot stand on their own?

No, it's just annoying that you were routinely round 5.9 to 5 instead of 6.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Not sure if it was mentioned for the whole frightened thing, but Barbarian Berserkers can frighten as an action at level 10, it seems to be non-magical the way it's written.