D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Hussar]

If your argument is A=A, the task should work in either direction. It doesn't.

Labradors are dogs. Not all dogs are Labradors. Just because halflings can be replaced by humans because the halfling description is basically just a bog standard human, does not not necessarily mean that all humans can be replaced by halflings because human history isn't really written about bog standard humans.

And, at the end of the day, neither are the stories about halflings. Only thing is, when I play a human that wants to be king, I'm playing a bog standard PHB human. When you play a PC halfling, you are going against type. It's pretty much impossible to play a PC halfling AS a halfling.

 

[bedir than]

It's pretty much impossible to play a PC halfling AS a halfling.

I'll throw those characters and memories away then

 

[Hussar]

Just because hacky, lazy writing hasn't happened doesn't mean it needs to happen.

"Magical" and "otherworldly" are just as lazy in the context of D&D as they are elsewhere, if not moreso. The most you get out of them is that something is weird or different, which is especially meaningless in the context of a fantasy rpg, where weird and different is the stock and trade.

And elven and halfling traits could be described as equally magical and otherworldy. Charm resistance vs. Fear resistance, luck vs. trance. Dex bonus vs. Dex bonus.

Hang on.

Earlier in the thread, you folks flat out refused to entertain the idea that halfling luck was magical in nature or that it came from the gods. I was told that it MUST be 100% natural and inherent to a halfling. After all, it doesn't stop working in an anti-magic field, right. It is, by the rules, non-magical in nature. That was the argument made by @carkl3000, repeatedly.

Are you now saying that @carkl3000 is wrong?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

No, it literally, as in literally literally, talks about how they don't value possessions based on their monetary value.

"As do many other races, halflings enjoy accumulating personal possessions. But unlike with most other races, a halfling’s idea of value has little if anything to do with monetary concerns. A typical halfling’s most prized possessions are those that have the most interesting stories attached to them."

To break this down.

Halflings enjoy accumulating possessions "BUT" (by using But, a conjuction [an uninflected linguistic form that joins together sentences, clauses, phrases, or words] they are explicitly tying this new sentence to the old sentence)

Unlike other races (who accumulate personal possessions) a halflings idea of value (for their possessions) has little to do with money. Now, this is where you stop, and say " AHA! They don't like money, they wouldn't take payment for work in Money! Because they don't value it!" However, this is still EXPLICITLY tied to the idea of possessions. And the following sentence clarifies, by telling us that the POSSESSIONS a halfling values have the most interesting story.

This is explicit and literally referring back to the idea of monetary value in that sentence. Not because halflings don't use money and don't want to be paid in money, a thing that is mentioned nowhere in these three sentences. It is all tied into their possessions. They aren't going to value an expensive dress just because it is expensive. They aren't going to value expensive dishes because they are expensive. Their most valuable possessions are valuable because of sentiment.

But, if you try and pay a halfling through "the expeirence of working for me" I'm sure they are going to insulted, just like most people would be. Because they do use money. And they still believe money has value. They just don't like possessions for their monetary value.

To put it more succinctly, while halflings use money just like other races, the monetary value of thing aren’t what carries cachet in the shire.

The rogue’s brand new masterwork Mithril blade might be cool & all, but the rusty old, broken-bladed shiv Uncle Wine-Briars used to win the plot of land his family farms might be something worth fighting to the death for.

 

[Neonchameleon]

And, at the end of the day, neither are the stories about halflings. Only thing is, when I play a human that wants to be king, I'm playing a bog standard PHB human. When you play a PC halfling, you are going against type. It's pretty much impossible to play a PC halfling AS a halfling.

No it isn't. As I mentioned a few pages back, if the normal halfling archetype is "happy and content" the normal PC archetype is "X was happy and content until..." This doesn't miraculously mean that they stop being halflings.

All it means is that no race is entirely made of clones and that nature isn't 100% of what makes someone.

 

[Hussar]

Because there are people who are trying to say that halflings shouldn't be in the PH because they are just short humans.

Umm, nope.

They shouldn't be in the PHB because, despite having every advantage, being promoted to the front (in the case of Eberron quite literally) of every WotC product, and being one of the longest existing elements in the game, they are a tiny niche option that is basically just "the rogue race" and I believe that the PHB should reflect what players are actually playing.

I mean, if you're going to talk about someone else's argument, at least make a basic attempt to show what that argument is.

 

[Hussar]

By phrasing it like this you are being incredibly disrespectful to the dead, and to those who love his work. It’s a disgusting thing to do.

Then stop trying to ram Tolkien down my throat? Let the game actually breathe and grow. To me, it's unbelievable that we are STILL forced into the Tolkien mold, ignoring all the fantastic authors that have come since then, just because, in the 1970's when D&D was being written, Tolkien was pretty much the only commonly known (as in outside of fantasy fan circles) author to draw upon. And Tolkien was largely only known because he was on public school reading lists.

All these appeals to tradition are just rather sad to be honest. We're not 12 years old anymore. It's okay to let new ideas into the game. The fact that the first two new ideas we let in have left the Tolkien races in the dust proves that.

 

[Yaarel]

• They're a small race without the baggage of being innately magical and like miniature elves
• They aren't an invasive species like the other widely used small race
  
• They remind me of five of my favorite characters in fantasy literature
• They make great underdogs
• They make a great B&B theme This Airbnb Feels Like a Real-life Hobbit House Straight Out of Middle-earth — but It's Right Here in the U.S.
• They aren't over-used like elves and dwarves
• They aren't new fangled and un-D&D feeling (unless you liked 4th) like Tieflings and Dragonborn
• They weren't made to obviously suit the gods' needs
• One of my first pair of characters was a Halfling
• Moldvay thought they were worth an entire character class, and his version of the game was pretty boss
• They'll bean you with a sling stone in the noggin if you don't agree with my list
• Kender will hopefully be written out of Dragonlance

This is a useful list.

In this view, probably being nonmagical is a central theme.
• It is more difficult to distinguish a nonmagical Halfling from a nonmagical Human.
• Probably, the magical luck should move to a culture (subrace), so the base lineage (race) can be nonmagical.

Remind me the good parts of the Modvay class?

There is a longstanding complaint against the Small Halfling being unable to deal good damage without heavy weapons.
• What if, the Halfling deals heavy damage while using small weapons.
• All weapons in the hands of a halfling increase damage by a dice size.
• A 1d4 dagger deals 1d6 instead. A 1d8 longsword deals 1d10 instead. And so on.
• This damage increase is nonmagical.
• The nonhuman skeletal and muscular structure of a Halfling is stronger and leverages better these smaller weapons.
• Recall the chimpanzee is strong despite size. And specializes for locomoting trees.

For me, something like this would help the Halfling feel less Human, while still encouraging Small size tropes.

There is no contradiction between handling small tools well and them being good natures. It even somehow works with their Rogue Slight Of Hands.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Then stop trying to ram Tolkien down my throat? Let the game actually breathe and grow. To me, it's unbelievable that we are STILL forced into the Tolkien mold, ignoring all the fantastic authors that have come since then, just because, in the 1970's when D&D was being written, Tolkien was pretty much the only commonly known (as in outside of fantasy fan circles) author to draw upon. And Tolkien was largely only known because he was on public school reading lists.

All these appeals to tradition are just rather sad to be honest. We're not 12 years old anymore. It's okay to let new ideas into the game. The fact that the first two new ideas we let in have left the Tolkien races in the dust proves that.

No one is cramming anything down your throat. Stop being so melodramatic. Your dissatisfaction with the influence of Tolkien on fantasy doesn't excuse your gross comments.

The idea that any of this is an appeal to tradition is laughable nonsense.

I support halflings in the game for precisely the same reason I support dragonborn in the game. They help a lot of players tell a different kind of story than would be easy to tell with humans or elves or whatever, and they're fun to play, and they're popular. Yes, popular. ANything in the top 20, much less top 10, out of over a hundred options, is popular.

 

[pemerton]

when I play a human that wants to be king, I'm playing a bog standard PHB human. When you play a PC halfling, you are going against type. It's pretty much impossible to play a PC halfling AS a halfling.

When I joined this thread, maybe 100 pages ago (?), this seemed to be the main point being made by Halfling advocates: they're a race for those who want to play against type.

I think the notion that @Don Durito (I hope I'm remembering rightly) and I discussed - of Halfling PCs as plucky - also plays into this. It's maybe not quite identical, but sits in the same general conceptual space.

Halfings are kinda the Robin, Boy Wonder of FRPG races.