D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[bedir than]

We aren't saying halflings has no lore.

I mean, several have said that their lore is merely a human, which means that halflings don't have halfling lore. Others have actually said they have no original lore and it's just some sort of Tolkien worship.

We are saying the lore they do have doesn't match how D&D, 5e, or their mechanics work.

Since the lore is about NPCs and halfling society, and the mechanics are about PCs who are by nature exceptional that they don't mesh perfectly is fine.

100% of Dwarves aren't combat proficient in axes. That doesn't mean that their 'lore is broken'

 

[carkl3000]

How would they have that different of a story compared to a halfling in a halfling village? Are you somehow thinking that it is because all the NPCs will listen to your dragonborn and say "that's wierd" while they will listen to the halfling and think "that would be weird if they weren't a halfling"? To me that doesn't make sense. The point of having the halfling be different is for that difference to be commented on by the NPCs and the other players.

And, I'm sorry, but you didn't talk about culture. Being humble isn't a culture unless there is an opposite point of "what bad thing comes from not being humble". Trusting and optimisitic and naive and guileless (ect) is just 100% a character personality traits. That isn't culture.

At this point you just seem like you're being willfully obtuse, but I'll try one more time. Second paragraph first. I was describing the personal qualities best exemplified by most halflings and that the halfling culture values most highly. It describes what you would expect to see or how you would expect to be treated in a typical halfling village. And I don't think my description strayed too far from what's in the PHB.

The PHB also describes (and it seems weird to have to explain this) the personal qualities that the dragonborn culture values most, and their values as a culture are much different than those of the halfling culture, and as such, a typical dragonborn village would have a much different character than a typical halfling village. Do you agree?

You can call me fantasy racist if you want, but yes, I think that any character that had any knowledge of dragonborn culture, that met a hippy dippy dragonborn character would think it was strange and might wonder why this guy is so easy going when most of the other dragonborn they have met are very stern and serious and very into swords and familial honor.

BUT, apart from reactions from NPCs, I would expect a player to role play an easygoing dragonborn differently than one would play an easy going halfling. BECAUSE a hippy dragonborn commune is subversive. A laid back halfling shire is typical.

 

[carkl3000]

Players interact with the world via the mechanics. If the mechanics tell them that the bugbear shouldn't have had anything to fear from a 1v1 with Hattie, then it is just theater.

Which is fine for something like a tall tale. Works great. But then when it actually starts mattering, like the adventurers helping to rally the town, then I can't just hand wave it away because that makes a better story.

And my point is that when there are no players around, it's all just story telling. Or if you need me to put it in game mechanics terms so you can wrap your head around it, "No one knows just how well Aunt Hattie rolled on the day that big bugbear tried to steal one of her pies, but his backside tells him it must have been a crit."

 

[Hussar]

Neonchameleon said tht halflings deserve to have their lore strengthened. You are saying they should be relegated to the DMG. Those are complete opposites.

I also stated that I was perfectly fine with use them or lose them. I just figure that after 40 years of not really using them, losing them is a better option.

But, you failed to answer the question. Who's right? You or @Neonchameleon? You can't both be right.

When you fine folks figure it out, let's talk. Until then, what can I do? I can't really argue a point when you guys are making exact opposite points and claiming both are true.

 

[Hussar]

/snip

And why are you so adamant that none of the arguments you apply to halflings should be put in context of the other races in the PHB?
/snip

Wait... what? I've REPEATEDLY stated that I have zero problems ejecting any race that is underperforming. How explicit do I need to be?

 

[Gammadoodler]

Exactly. Everyone has different levels of suspension. That's why I wanted options for that suspension and less people suggesting shutting down growth in halfling lore.

Ennhh. I'm probably not the right person for such a discussion. My personal take is that players are responsible for their own suspension of disbelief.

Everyone at the table came together to play a fantasy game with heroes, magic, and monsters. If you're not enjoying it, because it isn't "realistic" enough, it's kind of a you problem.

 

[Faolyn]

someone did say halflings would not have an organized militia.
And someone else or possibly the same person said halflings don't value wealth, barely have any wealth, and their villages have little of value.
That's what I'm pushing against.

Halflings, canonically, have militias. Or at least, they have people who can fight. They canonically prefer objects of sentimental value over items of monetary value. That doesn’t mean they don’t have valuable objects.

Because their charisma isn't what people are claiming makes them dangerous. Halfling dexterity is being touted as high when it's only +2. If it were +4 or +5...

It’s higher than most other PC races, on average.

I said not in the number. Of course there would be halflings with class levels. My point is the average village would not have enough high level halflings of class levels and appropriate skills to succeed in that mission.

It's litterally what a wandering PC party would have to handle.

Whether they have enough is up to the individual DM.

 

[Faolyn]

I also stated that I was perfectly fine with use them or lose them. I just figure that after 40 years of not really using them, losing them is a better option.

They’ve been used by many, many, many gamers over the course of 40+ years, and have been well-used in several settings. So, no need to lose them.

But, you failed to answer the question. Who's right? You or @Neonchameleon? You can't both be right.

When you fine folks figure it out, let's talk. Until then, what can I do? I can't really argue a point when you guys are making exact opposite points and claiming both are true.

Since I have no idea what you claim we’re contradicting each other about, I can’t answer. All I can guess is where Neonchameleon said they're not well-used in the Realms and have a boring pantheon, and I pointed out how they were in 14 different adventures, in which they’re used In exactly the same way as every other NPC. Is this it?

In which case, there‘s no contradiction because we’re talking about two completely different things.

if it’s not that, then you’re going to have to explain.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Speaking personally, my natural defense system in High School was 100% "keep quiet, unobtrusive, and if engaged be extra friendly".

that is in a social environment regulated partly by others, not the law of nature which reality runs on also halfling would have to stop being merry and just do nearly nothing to get it to work on that scale.

Fixed it to match the rules as written and the rules as intended.

why would we have the base stats for a player race not be the same as every other version of that life form? it makes no sense and just means everyone is utterly human which would suggest we should just dump the races.

 

[Faolyn]

We aren't saying halflings has no lore.
We are saying the lore they do have doesn't match how D&D, 5e, or their mechanics work.

The races generally don’t. High elves are supposed to be deeply and intrinsically magical. To prove this, they learn, using Int, a wizard cantrip. It’s not innate magic—that would be Charisma. They’re as deeply and intrinsically magical as any human who grew up in a magical academy-type setting.