D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Minigiant]

People like to complain in this thread that "halflings don't even have their own lands! They live with humans!" Are you really saying that there wouldn't be human patrols watching out for raiding bands? Or that halfings can't fund patrols and protectors themselves?

No.
What I am saying is that.
What some are sauggesting is human patrols will protect halflings for free and halflings don't use money and thus can't pay mercenaries or halflings are folksy and wont have an organized militia or patrol squads anytime someone suggests halflings function like a race logically would in a D&D world.

Nope. Halflings hide in barely fortified homes barely under the earth as the orcs steal their sheep then pop up and use the worst range weapon in 5e, the sling, in mass.

Yes, and? Same goes with every other race. Are you going to condemn tieflings for being only 5% more persuasive than humans?

No because 5e says there are few fully tieffling villages if any and they live as an underclass in human cities.

Do you really think that no NPC halfling is going to also have proficiency in Stealth?

Not enough in number and skill to sneak into a orc camp or gnoll packhouse unnoticed and get back all the stuff they took. These are commoners.

 

[Yaarel]

Falling out of top 10?

Yes, something like that.

For the Players Handbook, I might even increase the number to the top 25 most frequent lineages. The cutoff point depends on the popularity of the lineage, and the space available.

List Human first as a measuring unit, to compare the other lineages. Then list the lineages in alphabetical order.

Finally, in a sidebox, give examples of official settings, and which top-5 lineages are the most prominent ones in it.



Hypothetically, year 2024 will reprint an anniversary edition of the Players Handbook, likely with all of the current updates, from moving the ability score improvement from the lineage section to the ability score generation section, possibly replacing the word "race", listing Drow as Uda, Aeven, and Loren cultures, organizing Dragonborn into Metal, Gem, and Chromatic cultures, making the Custom Lineage core, adding the cosmic force option for the Cleric, maybe adding the Psion and Artificer, "correcting" the Ranger, improving the Monk, including various archetypes for each of the classes, and so on. Generally, it would be all of the new developments since the original printing, now in one convenient place.



It is a great time to revisit the lore and mechanics of the Halfling.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Why do you keep referencing the number of sub-races? The only reason that halflings are in the top 9 is if you combine the sub-races. Split them out and suddenly halflings aren't even in the top 10 anymore.

Asked and answered. This is the normal way of assessing races.

If we want to assess subraces then one of the halfling subraces beats both dwarven subraces.

I was recently taken very much to task for pointing out that when you combine dwarves and elves into single races, they jump way up, back into the top 5.

[Citation needed] - because the 2020 data showing they were out of the top 5 was by race not by subrace. You can always tell this because humans were only one of the top 5.

But, we're supposed to always combine halflings when talking about races.

If we are talking about races we talk about races. If we're talking

But, my reasoning why "any race" would be just as popular is quite simple- dragonborn and tieflings. Two races with nothing especially outstanding about them, no long history, no hugely famous authors to point to for inspiration, no movies - are both significantly more popular than halflings and a number of other PHB races.

So you find it strange Dragonborn are popular in a game called Dungeons & Dragons. You find it strange that part-demons are popular when there's a ludicrous amount of demonic imagery and demonic imagery is second only to draconic in selling D&D books.

As I've said before Tieflings had been trying to break through since the 90s. One of my friends in the 90s was playing a half-dragon, they kept inventing new ways to play a dragon-like humanoid throughout 3.5, and dragonborn literally anchored a 3.5 splatbook. Dragonborn and Tieflings in 4e didn't spring fully-formed from Rob Heinsoo's brow. Instead there was more than a decade where they were clearly rising and clearly very popular.

There is, as far as I am aware precisely one race in D&D to which this also applies. A race "with nothing especially outstanding about them", a race that is very popular despite no long history nor hugely famous authors. And a race I expect to get into the next PHB.

That race is, of course, Genasi. It's been through a similar promotion process to both dragonborn and tieflings.

There's a second possible that's been through a brawl - but that's because the PHB race is in many ways weak. The goliath is challenging for the spot of the half-orc. The orc would probably be a better challenger. When the half-orc goes up the goliath goes down and vise-versa as the beefcake race of choice

But the idea that the tieflings and dragonborn came out of nowhere is ridiculous. Dragonborn literally had a 3.5 splatbook where they were the star attraction.

It was pointed out to me repeatedly that if all things were equal, then all the races would be about 8 or 9%.

If all things were equal then all the races would have failed and should be thrown out. The idea that races should be divided evenly between players when they emphasise themes in characters and ways of approaching the world is so utterly contrary to the way I see race being used in all my groups that I can only conclude that you have no idea how most gamers approach the subject of race of their characters.

No, I do not accept that. They are not popular enough. They should be MORE popular. Has nothing to do with my "tastes" and thankyouverymuch for implying, yet again, that the only reason I'm arguing this is because I don't like halflings.

Then why are you arguing this? Why have you written, at a rough estimate, roughly 200 posts about halflings in this thread alone. What makes you so passionate.

And why are you so adamant that none of the arguments you apply to halflings should be put in context of the other races in the PHB?

Drink up boys, got another one. I feel that any option in the PHB that has achieved such mediocre results, despite trying for 40 years or more, shouldn't be in the PHB. I'm using the 5% mark because, well, that seems like a pretty decent line.

Sure - it seems decent because you took the lowest halfling number and rounded up,

I'm not wedded to it, to be certain. But, again, I'll ask you too - what would be a poor showing?

Asked and answered. I have said in the past that setting an arbitrary threshold for this sort of thing is utterly inane. Especially when you bang on about subclasses. By setting your "just above halfling popularity" of 5% you cause the following to be true

• Hill dwarfs should be removed from the game as less than 4%
• Mountain dwarfs should be removed from the game as less than 4%
• Dwarfs overall should not be removed - but we have already removed both subraces so there's nothing left

Context matters and as I have said before in response to the last time you suggested that all races should be measured by how cool they are and we should throw the nerds out for not measuring up (despite this being D&D) we should try and save what we can by combining if we have any need to throw anything out at all.

Gnomes don't even crack the top 10 anymore. I'll bet dollars to donuts that if we go another 4 years, halflings won't either.

I will take that bet and laugh.

There are precisely twelve major options in D&D beyond because there are twelve options that are free. There are nine PHB races, Genasi, Goliaths, and Aaracroka. For the purposes of DDB they are almost on the same level of promotion (and remember DDB is where this data comes from) and halflings are still eighth (gnomes eleventh and aaracroka a distant twelfth).

Halflings are more popular on D&D beyond than all the non-PHB races including the free ones and more popular than gnomes. There is no threat to push them into eleventh on the horizon.

So, if we drop down to 2%, say, and it stays there for significant amounts of time, would that be an acceptable point to suggest that we punt them into the DMG and add a new idea? 1%? How small of a minority of players do we have to get before it's not a good idea to have it in the PHB?

That depends as I have said on niches. And I have also said that rather than putting sections of the PHB through a paper shredder the way you want to it would be better to see which of the good parts could be saved.

And I will repeat:

• Gnomes are less popular than halflings.
• If you try to remove halflings before gnomes then clearly popularity is not your metric and I can only assume that you are motivated by personal dislike of halflings
• To remove both gnomes and halflings at the same time would be a ridiculous attack on all the small races.
• If you are to remove gnomes you should try to save what you can rather than commit an act of wanton vandalism on the PHB
• The best place to save much of gnomery is into the halfling race.
• If you save much of gnomery by trying to integrate those aspects with the more popular halflings then even if halflings are on the chopping block you need to see how the new version has done

The only possible way that trying to remove halflings could be done as other than an act of vandalism towards D&D would be if you could roll gnomes into halflings rather than the other way round - but thematically the magical subgroup and the magical members having the non-default name works far better.

 

[Gammadoodler]

This is all I'm saying.
For some reason there is resistance against pulling halflings into the world. Halflings are smaller, have no mentions of a martial, expert, craft, or magical culture, and the game mechanics go out their way to nerf them.

I just want what people say the lore is or what they say the mechanics are that make halflings fit into D&D to match what the actual lore and/or mechanics described in the books. If it matched, this thread would have ended 100 pages ago. However there is pressure to not make things match up.

Orrrr people disagree on what constitutes a match.

 

[Chaosmancer]

There are many references to elven magic in the Players Handbook, not even looking at the other D&D books.

When you assemble these references to elven magic, the resulting picture is each elven culture weilds heavy magic. They are a magical people.

Yes, I agree that they are a magical people that use magic a lot.

Where I disagree is that they use it to the point where nothing they do is non-magical. Where every blacksmith shapes metal by magic, every house is built by magic, every garden is gardened by magic. They aren't that magical

The martial power source includes heavy damage dealing, high hit points, stealth, and can save versus magic.

An army of human warriors is a comparable threat to an army of elven mages.

Damage, hp and stealth are useless if your king is charmed and never fields the army.

On the field of battle the only possible hope you have is that you have the bows to hit them at range. And every single elf can match that, and they have the added advantage of making field works in minutes that takes the human army hours.

So, no, they aren't comparable. Magic gives too many options when used on a large scale.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Is the Hunter or Beast Master bucolic enough for Halfling flavor?

Give them a big dog, a hat, and a sheriff's badge and let them mosey. Seems bucolic enough for me.

 

[Minigiant]

Orrrr people disagree on what constitutes a match.

Exactly. Everyone has different levels of suspension. That's why I wanted options for that suspension and less people suggesting shutting down growth in halfling lore.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's a culture. And it's predicated on the fact that all halflings have a QLP (quantum luck particle) residing in their hypothalami and they are all protected by an AFF (anti-fear field). Neither of the these things is magical by the way. Both are a direct result of the fundamental laws of D&D physics.

Joking aside, I was describing halfling culture and I think I stuck pretty close to the way they are described in the book.

Does that mean that one can't create a village of dragonborn pacifist farmers? No! But that would be a really unusual village! And the hero hailing from that village would have a much different story from that of a halfling raised in a typical halfling village.

Conversely, does it mean that you can't have a band of halfling "lost boys" roving the countryside and sticking up merchant caravans? No! But part of the flavor of that story is that the life they have chosen is pretty antithetical to the greater halfling culture.

How would they have that different of a story compared to a halfling in a halfling village? Are you somehow thinking that it is because all the NPCs will listen to your dragonborn and say "that's wierd" while they will listen to the halfling and think "that would be weird if they weren't a halfling"? To me that doesn't make sense. The point of having the halfling be different is for that difference to be commented on by the NPCs and the other players.

And, I'm sorry, but you didn't talk about culture. Being humble isn't a culture unless there is an opposite point of "what bad thing comes from not being humble". Trusting and optimisitic and naive and guileless (ect) is just 100% a character personality traits. That isn't culture.

 

[Yaarel]

Give them a big dog, a hat, and a sheriff's badge and let them mosey. Seems bucolic enough for me.

Right, as a steed!

I feel there is fun potential for a Ranger farmer archetype.

Generally, 5e hasnt explored the medieval agricultural themes, not even as a Players Handbook Background.



So the Halfling archetypes so far are:

• Rogue Thief
• Ranger Beastmaster
• ? Fighter Champion
• ? Bard Eloquent
• ? Sorcerer Divine

 

[Chaosmancer]

Who on earth is doing that?

Where did this happen?

Last thread, which is why I wanted to avoid the fight, but I figured I'd get dragged in regardless.

The thing is I do not expect a halfling town militia to look like that of other races because halflings aren't other races. It's at once both more informal and pretty effective. I go back to Tolkien here where just about every hobbit was, from memory, just about good enough with a stone or slingshot to hit a bird.

Every halfling in a settled halfling community carries a sling and bullets. It doesn't stand out because slings and slingstones and bullets are tiny and easily concealable; most people not in the know think that that bag is the halfling's purse, much to the disappointment of a number of cutpurses. Most (like most people of most races) also carry belt knives that they can use as daggers. Few halflings wear more than leather armour and they don't run a formal militia. But every halfling is armed with a ranged weapon as a matter of course. The sling has no listed weight and sling bullets are both light and incredibly cheap. And in 5e pretty effective. Halflings are both brave and loyal to the community - and rather than a militia they just shout for help and just about the entire community is armed and combat effective.

Is this the way most human militias work? No. It's far more community focused and far more low key. Is it comfortable? Yes - far moreso than e.g. wearing armour or prancing around with heavy weapons. Is it practical and unostentatious? Yes. Is it effective? Yes, definitely - and there's a huge time saving of not having to wait for the officially designated militia. It's also something that most of the halflings' guests don't know about. Why would they? While they remain friends those sling stones aren't going to be used on them.

Comfort, practicality, community focus, lack of ostentation. Halflings have a definite aesthetic from the PHB.

I'm with you for most of it, but slings aren't effective enough. Range of 30 ft if you don't want disadvantage is too close, 1d4+1 is an average of 3 damage (my math previously said 4, I think I was rounding up) meaning it would take potentially 7 strikes to take down a gnoll, at close range when they only need one strike.

Are slings a good weapon for halflings lore wise? Yes.
Do I like you description and think it is cool? Yes.
Do I think it works on a mechanical level? No.

Much like people keep hunting rifles near their houses, I can see halflings keeping crossbows near their houses, and that provides enough benefits to give them a fighting chance.