D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Oofta]

Maybe they're all Custom Lineage Halflings who took Sharpshooter as their feat.

Well, they are basically human according to some people so they may as well get a free feat.

 

[Hussar]

I’ll just point out that- since the dawn of D&D- modules have included NPCS with levels in almost every settlement I can think of. Some were indeed retired adventurers with significant abilities.

So I would say that assuming a halfling shire has only 0-level commoners is probably against the tide of D&D history.

You may now return to circular bickering.

And that's fair enough. But, that's not what's being argued here. Being argued here is that completely average halflings, lacking any actual training, would react perfectly to a raid and be able to dispatch the raiders while the same number of completely average humans would all die. Again, apparently, halfligns are this uber race who can do everything and have no flaws.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

That said, at this point this just feels like a style choice of if you want Halflings being more casual about what weapons they carry or not.

NPCs don't follow PCs rules, so you can just say "All Halflings play with slings since they're kids, and thus gain the benefits of the sharpshooter feat when using them due to all the experience". If you want them to use bows, just give them that, not much of an issue since even Hobbits used bows quite a bit in the battles of the Shire in Return of the King, iirc.

 

[Alzrius]

NPCs don't follow PCs rules

Well, this is a D&D General thread, so in some editions they do.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Fair enough.

 

[Faolyn]

And that's fair enough. But, that's not what's being argued here. Being argued here is that completely average halflings, lacking any actual training, would react perfectly to a raid and be able to dispatch the raiders while the same number of completely average humans would all die. Again, apparently, halfligns are this uber race who can do everything and have no flaws.

OR you could interpret what was written to mean "halflings, who have trained all their lives with slings (albeit in a more casual way than someone in an army would train) would respond the same way that any other militia would respond to invasion, and as a result they are more likely to suffer fewer losses."

But since you don't like halflings--as you have proven time and time again with your actions--you choose to read anything anyone writes about them in the least charitable light possible.

 

[Chaosmancer]

No. I said the player can play their character however they want. I would try to have my NPCs react to the PC in a way that I thought was appropriate. When I said that the NPCs would think it was strange if they met a hippy dippy dragonborn character that was a statement of how the player is playing the character. But maybe the player designed an easygoing dragonborn character, but for some reason they are trying to play it as more of a typical stern and serious character (maybe to try to fit in better with a group of dragonborn NPCs?). That is also valid. If they did that I would try to have my NPCs react appropriately to that situation as well. Keep in mind, when I say "react appropriately" that wouldn't generally mean that the NPC would just come right out and ask the PC "Hey you're one of those dragonborn, right? Why are you so happy anyway? Aren't you people supposed to be serious?" Believe it or not, some people understand subtlety and nuance.

And yet, the NPC's reaction is all based on the steroetyped Dragonborn. Based on "how they are supposed to be played"

Again, you are saying that the reason you can't tell the story of a humble and kind farmboy dragonborn is that the NPCs will react differently to that character than they would to a humble and kind farmboy halflling. The issue isn't the character you can play, it is the reaction of the world to that character. I'm not saying that is unimportant, but it does seem like a lot of tautological bias to say that the only reason halflings can fill this role is because halflings already fill this role.

This is at best an accidental fabrication (mistake of your memory), but I rather think it's a willful misrepresentation just meant to try to win internet points. I'm not sure where you even came up with the idea that halflings don't talk about the outside world.

Ah yes, the classic "You must either be wrong or lying, because no one said that"

This would be my third time attempting to show exactly when someone said that, but since every single time I've done so people have descended upon me to tell me how I can't read english and even once accused me of harrassment, I'm not going to bother. You won't change you mind even if I provide you evidence.

So, according to the lore, dragonborn are a race that had to fight to escape slavery. They have had their homeland taken from them multiple times. They have had to fight for their survival and I believe that's why they are described as being so martially inclined. Even their clans (their extended families) are described more like a military unit than they are like the typical idea of a family. They are described as hard and serious and proud and devoted to the honor of their clan above all else.

So if a player in a game of mine proposed the idea of a peaceful dragonborn clan that wanted to escape the troubles of their people and attempt to follow a simple agrarian lifestyle instead, I would want to know the story of how that happened and I would want to know what the relationship of that clan was to other dragonborn clans. And I absolutely think that the members of that clan would tell that story to their young ones. I think it's sounds great and interesting. It's the kind of thing I would want to talk over with a player before beginning a campaign so we could both incorporate the idea in an interesting way.

Conversely, to return to the example of the halfling stick-up gang. I think it could be a fun idea, but I would want to know where they came from and why they are doing what they are doing, and how they would handle it if they were confronted by a group of their own people who were sorely disappointed to see that they had gone so far astray. If Hattie was around, she'd give them a wallop with her trusty rolling pin.

And yet again, the entire problem with playing the Dragonborn in a halfling style character and story is that people will expect them to be a dragonborn, and not a halfling.

Which leads to only halflings filling the niche because halflings already fill the niche, because everyone expects halflings in the niche. It is all just a tautology. They are because they are, and others can't because they aren't.

I'm not sure why you care so much about lore if, when it comes down to the actually story, you're willing to toss it all out the window? Isn't the point of all the history to explain how the character fits into the story? How they expect to interact with NPCs of various factions and how various NPCs will interact with them?

Because I was asking "why can't a dragonborn fulfill this type of story" and the answer I am getting is "because a dragonborn isn't a halfling, and stereotypically, dragonborn don't fulfill this story, so NPCs will react to them differently."

So only halflings can tell halfling stories because only halflings are expected to be halflings. It is a non-answer. They can't tell those stories because you'd have dragonborn treated differently as the DM, and that different treatment makes it so they can't tell the same story. It is just a giant circle that you are forming, and then telling me that because that circle is true, you can't do the same thing with any other race.

 

[Hussar]

To try to head off in a different direction:

I was reading this thread: D&D 5E - Strixhaven: Curriculum of Chaos No Subclasses Confirmed by James Crawford about Strixhaven and how the play test of the cross class subclasses resulted in those cross class subclasses getting punted because there was a clear response from fans that it wasn't wanted because fans want subclasses that can be used as broadly as possible.

Now, to head this bit off, I'm NOT SUGGESTING that the bar for PHB races be 70%. That would be ridiculous and, well, that's not what that 70% number means. It means that 70% of those polled have looked at that option and said, "Yeah, I'd like to see that in the game" not, "I am going to use that option right now." Which brings me back to that 5(ish) percent played. I have a gut feeling that those numbers reflect a general dissatisfaction with halflings (as well as gnomes and possibly a few others) in the PHB.

Now, obviously, there are those that disagree. I get that.

But, like I said, to me, the only reason that halflings are as high as they are is because they're in the PHB. The numbers are artificially inflated because, if you're using the PHB to choose a race, and you want to play a small character (a completely understandable archetype) you only have two choices, and one of those choices appeared in Tolkien, which, let's be honest here, is something of a boost.

Which is why I was saying that something like a playable kobold in the PHB would really gut halflings. The counter claim is that I just really don't "get" why people play halflings. To me, I think a significant number of people play halflings because they want to play rogues, and halflings are a great choice for rogue. Plus the whole "small and unnoticed" archetype is attractive as well.

Only thing is, kobolds fill both those archetypes. Small, unnoticed, cute, likable (don't think so? Ask anyone who played Sunless Citadel who Meepo is), great rogues, sneaky, AND, they do have the whole crafting aspect as well, so, they appeal to folks who want to play casters or artificers.

It has been suggested that gnomes and halflings be folded in together. I like this plan. It resolves my issues. But, I think if you fold a gnome with a halfling, you get a kobold.

 

[Hussar]

OR you could interpret what was written to mean "halflings, who have trained all their lives with slings (albeit in a more casual way than someone in an army would train) would respond the same way that any other militia would respond to invasion, and as a result they are more likely to suffer fewer losses."

But since you don't like halflings--as you have proven time and time again with your actions--you choose to read anything anyone writes about them in the least charitable light possible.

DRINK!!

The same post you are talking about tells me that militia are largely useless and totally inneffective against trained military. But, apparently, being "low level militia" is enough to respond to a an invasion and suffer fewer losses.

Again, quantum halfling strikes. I know, it's those halflings ninjas. Always blame ninjas.

Like I said, pick a lane.

 

[Neonchameleon]

This is mistaken. Good grief Sun Tsu talks about having a numerical superiority and he wrote thousands of years ago.

Sun Tzu was writing a primer for lordlings who didn't know what they were doing. And if you don't know what you're doing massive numerical superiority is almost essential. Things are very different if you have skill.

If we're going back thousands of years then when Caesar came for Pompey's army at the Battle of Ilerda he was outnumbered 3:2 by Pompey's veteran legions, took the fight to them and won. He then headed over to Greece where Pompey had gone because it was the economic heartland. Once more he took on Pompey's forces, legions vs legions a the Battle of Pharsalus Caesar chose to fight despite being outnumbered 3:2. Caesar won. His comment in advance was “I am going to Spain to fight an army without a general, and thence to the East to fight a general without an army.” But both times he was outnumbered and was the one forcing the initiative despite the fact he was literally outnumbered 3:2 both times. Or if we want to go back only 200 years there's the future Duke of Wellington at the Battle of Assaye who chose to attack and won despite being outnumbered more than 5:1, in part because he knew that a lot of what was facing him wasn't veteran troops. Caesar and Wellington aren't exactly people who didn't know what they were doing.

But, it's funny, militia is worthless who run away when shots are fired (your example) but, halflings are "low end militia" who react at a moments notice with perfect precision and drive off the professional soldiers...

So, again, we see how halflings are quantum individuals. They are both low end militia and crack commandos at the same time.

So, again, we see how your claims don't match up with what was actually said.

Gnolls aren't professional soldiers, which was part of my point. That's part of the point. They are Int 6 bullies with demonic bloodlust who think that because they are 7' tall vicious brutes they are effectively professional soldiers. Surely the idea that people can have a higher opinion of their own skills than they actually deserve especially if they've been taking on low tier opposition isn't new to you?

In terms of damage output halflings are low end militia. With the bravery of professionals - meaning that they don't do ridiculous things like run off at the sound of their own gunfire. And no they don't react with a moment's notice with perfect precision. They just come when someone shouts for help because they are brave and invested in their community and use kite tactics because they aren't stupid and gnolls are big.