My rant on Energy Substitution.

[novyet]

Our party's sorcerer took Energy Substitution (Acid), and our Enchantress took Energy Substitution (Electricity). I was thinking of making a wizard taking Energy Substitution (Sonic) and eventually going for that Master of the Secret Sound Class. On the whole, we have had people at a couple times be using energy substitution (Sonic) and it didn't seem all that bad. Because the other wizards would switch spells to use a type a creature may be weak against, wheras nothing is really vulnerable to sonic attacks.

Of course I'd need more experience with it, to truly jusge for myself, but both myself and my group don't have any issues with it. YMMV.

 

[Fenes 2]

For themed wizards or sorcerers it is, imho, not needed - my fire sorceress just learned fire variants of the various energy spells (Cone of Fire instead of Cone of Cold, Fire Chains replace Chain Lightning). It is really only needed if you want to be able to use Fireball, Cone of Cold and Chain Lighting as sonic variants as soon as you encounter a resistant creature.
As for the cost: A full round action casting time (unlike a full round casting time like summon monster has) is not much of a cost for a sorcerer, compared to the flexibility it allows him or her.

 

[Ilen]

Energy Subsitution is nice for element themed spell casters, I suppose if it was banned all you have to do is talk to the DM and get an okay to take Coldball instead of Fireball next level, but then when you go to face that frost Wyrm you can't switch back (If Sorc).

In the OP I see reasoning to ban or otherwise limit the Energy Subsitution (Sonic) but is a Freezing Hands more unbalanced then Burning Hands? And is Ray of Acid going to stand the game on it's head?

 

[Kibo]

Y'know, I always viewed sonics as literally "shaking things apart," when I describe what happens in the middle of a sonic effect. [/B]

Fireball in a sence was probably always a little bit "sonic" for most people. If you (or your DM) described a huge blast throwing you against the wall, and the heat cooking you, leaving a crumpled smoking wreak, that's a combination. The blast was sonic, the heat, fire.

Many munitions use the blast wave, or overpressure to kill. The nice thing about that is, it propigates nicely through caves, or reinforced corridors killing in a way little bits of shrapnel just can't. It goes around corners, alone or in pairs.

A good way to really see this on reality tv like MaxX where they show stuff blowing up. Every now and then you'll see an episode where a rocket fuel plant goes up, and you can watch the blast wave travel across a huge distance and hit the guy with the camera. Or all that cool Trinity and Beyond footage from America's atomic and hydrogen bomb programs.

More blast, less heat, more heat, less blast. That's all cool. Stylistcally speaking of course.

 

[Psion]

As for the cost: A full round action casting time (unlike a full round casting time like summon monster has) is not much of a cost for a sorcerer, compared to the flexibility it allows him or her.

Can you BE serious? As recently as last night I saw how important caster positioning can be in combat with area attack spells. Keeping a sorcerer from taking a move equivalent amidst a party of meleeing characters is a serious consideration.

 

[Bonedagger]

It's caused no problems in my game. *shrug* I think it's fine.

Well . Balance is ultimately maintained by the DM.

I have no doubt that a DM can adjust the encounters to match the partys specific powers.


I don't like the idea behind it. E.g. That sonic, Acid and Fire only are different at first glance. Fire, sonic and acid should be different in more ways than their category.

And based on that it does IMO sqrew up the idea of resistances.

Why then not just call it "blue fire", black fire" and "red fire" instead of fire, sonic and acid.

 

[hong]

Can you BE serious? As recently as last night I saw how important caster positioning can be in combat with area attack spells. Keeping a sorcerer from taking a move equivalent amidst a party of meleeing characters is a serious consideration.

Lots of things can be serious sometimes. Not so many things are serious all the time. IME, a full-action casting time is not serious all the time. It's not even serious sometimes. It's serious when specific circumstances cause the lack of being able to move to come into play, but you could say that about anything.

All things considered, slowed-down metamagic isn't a particularly major disadvantage. Sorcs still get much more oomph out of metamagic than wizards, because they can choose dynamically, based on the situation, when to apply these feats. If you're a wiz, you need to prepare stilled, silent, substituted etc. spells ahead of time. If you guess wrong about what you're going to fight, then you've wasted a bunch of high-level spell slots. If you're a sorc, you just use whatever's best for the situation.

Now if it was a full-round casting time, THAT would be a major negative. But it isn't.

 

[Darklone]

Problem is: a hasted sorcerer can't cast two metamagicked spells per round, a hasted wizard can.

I agree to abovementioned themes of spells... In that Diablo D&D book the best thing IMHO was the difference in damage and secondary effects of cold, lightning and fire spells...

Energy substitution is boring.

 

[smetzger]

Not. Microwaves are electromagnetic energy. Sonics are vibrational kinetic energy.

Microwaves are also high frequency sound waves, just way outside of anythings hearing range (other than a microwave receiver). I cannot find anything saying that Sonic is vibrational kinetic energy.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

From the SRD:

* Countersong: A bard with 3 or more ranks in Perform can counter magical effects that depend on sound (but not spells that simply have verbal components). As with inspire courage, a bard may sing, play, or recite a countersong while taking other mundane actions, but not magical actions. Each round of the countersong, the bard makes a Perform check. Any creature within 30 feet of the bard (including the bard) who is affected by a sonic or language-dependent magical attack may use the bard's Perform check result in place of his saving throw if, after rolling the saving throw, the Perform check result proves to be better. The bard may keep up the countersong for 10 rounds. Countersong is a supernatural ability.

I would have thought the presence of a bard in an opposing party would cut down on the number of sonics? And what about the effect of a silence spell?

But in general I agree with the rant. I don't know what it is about Energy Subsitution. But I don't so much mind when it relates to fire, cold, or lightning. But when people start talking about acid or sonic it bugs me for some reason.