My Thoughts on DnD, and the next Edition (Long, rambly)

[Droogie]

Uhg. I'd say feats and skills are some of the top things that slow the game down the most.

If we're talking 4th ed. using UA variants, I'd use the level = skill rank rule, or some variation of it. Anything to save me time when creating npcs.

Same goes for feats. Many can be consolidated or eliminated.

AoOs: there has to be a better way to limit what a character can do in combat.

 

[DragonLancer]

Nice little rant Merlion, but if they follow your ideas for 4th edition I wouldn't buy it.

What I would like to see is the eliminate of feats, or at least a severe narrowing down. Feats have turned D&D from a roleplaying game (admittidly one that has more than a fair share of combat) into the breeding ground for powergamers.

I'd leave the classes, AC, hit points, and spells alone. Theres nothing wrong with them. I would drop things like AoO's (far too fiddly in my mind, you can't do jack without someone getting a swipe at you! ).

I'd also ensure that Psionics, though an optional rule, where included in the core books.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Do you ever feel the need to pace yourself, or maybe just let it go?

This from the man who is holding a personal vendetta and dredging up old arguments.

Anyways, Felon, meet Ignore List. Ignore List, meet Felon.

 

[Felon]

AoO's definitely diminish the game. D&D now offers a wealth of combat options like grappling, disarm, trip, bull rush, overrun and sunder, all with the price tag of provoking an AoO. But let's face it, their benefits are often mall return for an all-or-nothing chance at success. IME, the fact that they provoke AoO's pretty much make them unworthy of consideration in most player's eyes.

And more to the point, the very sort of tactics that AoO's are supposed to discourage aren't really heavily impacted. Bodyguards, for instance, are still easy to do end-runs around. If a fighter wants to run past an NPC bodyguard to get at the soft target (e.g. the NPC wizard), he just sucks up the AoO and keeps on going. Even if the bodyguard hits, it's unlikely that his damage output is a bigger threat than what a wizard unchecked can do*.

Conversely, AoO's discourage few wizards from casting spells within melee. They just make Concentration a skill-point sink until it's not a consideration, and take 5-foot steps back whenever possible.

And then there's that nonsense with AoO's and Cleave/Great Cleave that's been officially ruled as an acceptable tactic.

*--Of course, the bodyguard can make his AoO a trip, which in turn provokes an AoO from the fighter, who can respond with a trip. And let's not get started on what happens if they both have combat reflexes.

 

[Piratecat]

Perhaps you recall that some time ago I pointed out your obsession with making these dog-eared cracks, and you reacted indignantly like I was accusing you of being in the "tin-foil hat" crowd.

Time to give old arguments a rest, gang. Agree to disagree or use the Ignore function, but please don't squabble.

 

[spider_minion]

Now there are a couple of things I don't like about 3rd--like the magic system, AC being based on equipment and not level, and the many number-boosting magic items.

But other than the above, I'm really happy with the way things are. And with the OGL (the best thing about 3rd) I've got plenty of options out there for changing what I don't like. And the 3rd party publishers really can take the game in unusal directions. Looking at my shelf, I see Mutants & Masterminds, BESM d20, Dynasties & Demagouges, d20 Mecha, and Factory. It's hard for any ice cream parlor, let alone 4th edition, to top this variety.

Many of the things people don't like about 3rd can be changed with innovation or a wise purchase. 3rd created a robust and (relatively) simple system that can be tweaked and changed to fit pretty much anyone's gaming needs, kinda like RPG Legos.

So with the exception of any mind-blowing innovation, there isn't much that could be done to improve the game that can't be done already.

 

[Mystery Man]

I would push for the next version of DnD to incorporate "pi" and "infinity" (couldn't find the infinity symbol) in some way.

 

[Felon]

This from the man who is holding a personal vendetta and dredging up old arguments.

Personal vendetta? No, in general you seem an OK guy and I don't get any big thrill out of giving you a hard time. But you are just clearly in this weird rut about old-school ninjas and elves that you refuse to climb out of as the years wind by and 2e wisecracks become less and less relevant. And moreover, you seem to be of a mind that no matter how many times a week you make these cracks, you expect other people to keep finding them funny. Just wondering what that's all about.

I wasn't sure what kind of response I'd get when I confronted you with your attachment to ad infinitum jokes about The Complete Book of Elves, but from experience I figured any response I got from you would avoid the rather inevitable admission that you are serving up material that is far from fresh. And that's not meant to be mean, I just gotta wonder, when you and your fellows sit around the gaming table, does every facetious ninja-elf this, elf-ninja that remark evoke titters and guffaws to this very day?

Anyways, Felon, meet Ignore List. Ignore List, meet Felon.

Fair enough, but that's still another denial response. I can ignore you without a computer program, and like most folks I usually do, but every twenty or so posts about elves that you jump in on cue, I feel some genuine curiosity about how you perceive your attempted witticisms and when you will say "OK, that joke's run its course" or at least "OK, maybe I'll let this post about elves scrape by".

Anyway, enough of this. Despite my curiosity, I suppose I can't reasonably expect you to own up, so I'll have to settle for just saying my piece.

 

[Torm]

One thing I would REALLY like to see (but I think some others' comments about it messing with some people's sacred cows are accurate) is a completely CLASSLESS system - everything for classes done with skills and feats. The ultimate in custom configurable characters. And that big area of the PHB previously absorbed with classes? Well, obviously part of it would be taken up with the extra feats and skills necessary, but I'd like to see a large section put in on acting, ROLEplaying, and a bit of discourse on the importance of the tone of the campaign - how some campaigns emphasize the STORY the characters and the DM are trying to make together, while others are more about the racking-up-the-score, metagaming, munchkining and kicking butt aspects of the game. And both are okay, but that it is important to know what kind you are getting into and play accordingly.

Also, I'd like to see Hasbro\WOTC start leveraging some of their other properties for sourcebooks - just to give us more material to snitch stuff for our own campaigns from, if nothing else. And I don't just mean the obvious stuff like Dark Sun, Spelljammer, and Alternity. I'm talking about Transformers, Zork (if they still own that, and if not, they should reacquire it - it would make an awesome campaign setting - and it sure as heck hasn't made any good PC games in the last 5 years), Pokemon, Magic: The Gathering, and so forth. Of course, this wish doesn't require a 4th edition, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

 

[Felon]

Personally, I have to wonder how much of PnP D&D will be revised to make it compatable with its digital counterparts--which are going to be the real moneymakers for Hasbro.

I know that once D&D Online emerges as a force to be reckoned with, we are going to see a lot of folks breaking down the classes and finding what's broken very quickly. From the outgrowth of that, expect sneak attack to get a big "nerf", and for arcane spellcaster to "get some love".