My Thoughts on DnD, and the next Edition (Long, rambly)

[spider_minion]

I would like to see the system kinder to multiclassed spellcasters. Perhaps spellcasters could add half of their non-spellcasting-class levels to their effective caster level. Unless its built into the class (as with bards), characters who dabble in magic are usually less effective.

Oh, and I'd get rid of the save-or-die type spells. Or at least have hit dice limits on what they could effect.

 

[Li Shenron]

Mah... this thread is interesting, and many people have good points. But aren't we advocating too much for very drastic changes? Just to mention the biggest one - a classless D&D - why should some wish that 4th edition will have no classes anymore?
If you want to play without classes, you have a few options already published (hopefully well playtested) such as d20 Modern or UA's Generic Classes. Wishing that one of them would become the CORE rule sounds quite too much, why do you want everybody else to play that way?
I have too my own gripes with some of the core rules, and I have no problems in using a few variants every time I can DM a new campaign, but I don't necessarily think it'd be a good idea to make my variants the default!

 

[Darklone]

Argh. Would people please stop to call armor as DR "realistic"? It's not. Well, it's as realistic as knights bashing each other with 15 lbs iron sticks. Or as realistic as daggers being faster than twohanded greatswords. It's Hollywood medieval movie flavor, not realism. If you like that flavor, no big deal, have fun, but it hurts my eyes and several other important body parts to read this "realistic" over and over again.

I would miss the feats. Some changes should be made, they should be restricted (and no more books with 100 new feats), but no feats anymore? Wouldn't like it. Talent trees: Cool, more Grim Tales. Clerics: Healer class, nothing else. CBDB: Yeah, but then remove a lot of magic items.

And yeah: I know at least two groups who kept playing 2nd edition because they loved the powergaming there. Kits anyone?

 

[Dougal DeKree]

4th Edition

Like some others i think that there's so much stuff out there with some many options, that it'll sure take some time to create something truly innovative which builds upon things learned from 3rd ed and 3.5e.

What i would very well like to see though would be some other kind of 4th Edition: Reprinting of D&D0 as boxed sets with state of the art printing and art including all the old adventures! I'd certainly buy that. Twice.

 

[Akrasia]

...
What i would very well like to see though would be some other kind of 4th Edition: Reprinting of D&D0 as boxed sets with state of the art printing and art including all the old adventures! I'd certainly buy that. Twice.

I would buy this too -- but ONLY if they didn't redo the art. Reprinting the old good stuff with new art would be horrific.

 

[FireLance]

Wishlist for 4e:

1. Magic Rating (similar to BAB) so that multiclassed spellcasters can get some increase to caster levels from non-spellcasting classes.

2. Unified Spells per Day table. Classes that get more spells per day (such as sorcerers) get extra spell slots as class features.

3. Make save-or-die spells more survivable. All characters should be able to stave off "die" for some time. This makes the game more fun since getting taken out in the first round of combat is boring and having the BBEG taken out in the first round of combat is anticlimactic.

4. Greater modularity: a basic game with fewer and simpler options for beginners and those who prefer rule-light systems, plus increasingly complex add-ons for those who want more options.

More later if I can think of them.

 

[diaglo]

i already have 4ed. it is called Hackmaster. it says so inside the GMG.


as for the next edition. i'll buy it and place it on the shelf with all the other material that isn't worth the paper it is printed on. just to complete my collection.


i already have the edition i like.

Original D&D(1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.

 

[Henry]

One thing I would REALLY like to see...is a completely CLASSLESS system - everything for classes done with skills and feats. The ultimate in custom configurable characters.

You and I need to talk about GURPS more.

...I'd like to see a large section put in on acting, ROLEplaying, and a bit of discourse on the importance of the tone of the campaign - how some campaigns emphasize the STORY the characters and the DM are trying to make together, while others are more about the racking-up-the-score, metagaming, munchkining and kicking butt aspects of the game. And both are okay, but that it is important to know what kind you are getting into and play accordingly.

While it is touched on in the front of the DMG (the whole section about "kick in the door" versus roleplay-centric), it's only two to three pages maximum. I agree that it probably should be given more attention. Personally, I think Gary Gygax should be hired to write that section, based on the excellent take from his Dragon Articles from two years ago, but that's just me.

Also, I'd like to see Hasbro\WOTC start leveraging some of their other properties for sourcebooks - just to give us more material to snitch stuff for our own campaigns from, if nothing else.

I can see it, and in fact, I think this is where the promise of things like d20 Modern and Future lies. There are several d20 companies that have made some JAM-UP (phrase from my youth) rules systems for Mecha, including Transforming mecha, that only requires a license to make it popular. (I believe it was Fantasy Flight which was running the Name that Mecha contest in the d20 Forum for their mecha game for a while early this year, but I could be mistaken).

 

[Henry]

Rangerjohn's got it right. If WotC were to listen to some of the suggestions in this thread, then D&D 4e would probably look like this...

Ah, yes, GURPS Fantasy - A highly underrated Fantasy Setting, indeed - but one that today would be accused of pandering to current political climate, to the contrary.

 

[Belen]

Sorry, Merlion, I totally disagree with most of your argument, although I do like defense bonus.

Most of the "sacred cows" in DnD remain because a majority of people enjoy them. ENWorld does not represent the majority of DnD players. We represent the majority of d20 players. There is a big difference between the two. Most of the suggestions I have read have more in common with elite gamer mentality than with the core DnD following.

The one major change I would like to see with 4e is the death of the PrC. Feats should be expanded to handle advanced options. Heck, they could even call them advanced feats. In addition, most classes would need additional feats. Or maybe a mechanic that allows someone to pick one feats and then automatically progress in a certain chain etc or something on par with the bloodline mechanic.

Personally, I have strong reservations about the 4e. I think it will have much more in common with a miniatures or computer game than a traditional RPG. There is a good chance that the GM will be cut out of the equation further as well.

Dave