MDSnowman said:
Does D&D need a 4th Edition?
No... it didn't really need a 3.5 edition either... which is why we'll likely see 4th edition sooner as opposed to later :\
Will 95% of the things talked about in this thread happen?
Not on your life... you may see a few things like Vitality / Wound Points mentioned in the DMG. But the Cleric won't be abolished, Armor will improve AC, Hit Points will still balloon.
Your sort of contradicting yourself here. There will be a new edition, but nothing will change? Seems unlikely.
No, the Cleric wont be abolished, but it probably will change. The concept of Armor Class will not be replaced by something else (such as an oposed defense roll of some kind), but that doesnt mean physical armor adding to AC wont be changed, or that a base defense bonus wont be added.
Since you do believe their will be a new edition, what do you think will change?
What do I want to see that will never happen?More and Better options for High Level characters... there's a reason there are thousands of Prestige Classes around because being a 20th level fighter or 20th level ANYTHING has almost no pay-off. Why get yet another bonus feat when you can gain a cool class ability instead? At least magic users have a reason to stick with their class, falling behind the power curve when it comes to spells sucks when you haven't planned specificlly for it.
Why dont you think this will happen? 3.5 already did improve this situation somewhat (such as the ranger class and the introduction of addmitedly to few more higher level fighter feats).
Considering how much this has been discussed and complained about by people, it seems likely to be addressed.
Sadly, in practice feats usually amount to a power-gaming-palooza, where everyone looks for feats that will max out their killing capacity, or spellcasting capacity, or what have you
But the one you missed was Prestige classes. Never has what started out as such a good idea for roleplay turned into such an excuse to put powergaming above roleplay every time.
Hmm...usualy, when I see people talk about "powergaming" what they actually mean is a different play style from their own that they dont like.
If it started out as a good idea for what you considering roleplay, it still is. The fact that some people do things with it you dont like has to do with those people, you, and opnions. Not the prestige classes and feats.
Saying that feats and prestige classes are the or even a big part of the reason for "powergaming" is like saying cigarrattes are to blame for people smoking.
I agree with the original thought that the UA book has a few things that are being tested for 4e... In my opinion thats part of what the whole combat and tactics, skills and powers thing was about...
I am glad you reminded me of this. I had forgotten. lots of Skills and Powers stuff got incorporated into 3rd edition. I think eactly the same is going to occur with UA and 4th edition.
Sorcerers need to be more than spontaneous wizards. They are the only class (at least in the core rules) that doesn't have its own spell list. Good avenues would be the concepts of bloodlines or a wild mage.
Exactly. Do you foresee that happening? I do. Either that, or the Sorcerer being removed.
We need a core class that casts divine spells spontaneously. The favoured soul is a nice base for that (being favoured of a deity and getting spells because of that), but we need more than a spontaneous cleric, of course. For example, they could make the druid a spontaneous caster
Well, I am for the idea of the whole "divine/arcane, priest/wizard whatever" business being done with and each spellcaster just being what it is. But I think the "Spontaneous Divine casters" rules in UA are quite nice, and I do think it especially fits the Druid.
Tone down the cleric. I might add that the cleric as is is nice enough besides being too powerful. Different spell lists for every god would be a mess, especially in worlds like the Forgotten Realms. They could make more use of Domains, though. They could be made similar do psionic disciplines, containing several spells per level (and a lot of stuff would disappear from the general lists). The domains could govern more than spells, too. You'd get a better BAB if you got the war domain (just as an example), or better saves for the protection domain. Toughness domain would grant you more HP. Of course, these would change the BAB and so on to the level they are today, not further up (a normal cleric could have d6 and weak bab). They could make those domains strong, medium and weak, and you can have 1 strong and 1 weak, or 2 medium, or 1 medium and 2 weak, or 4 weak, or something. Of course, all this would mean that the developers would need to put more thought into the domain selection of the deities (or every domain would have a weak and a strong from)
I did a Priest class that basically did this...it was a very basic class that got Domains and the Domains determined more or less everything.
That would work. Or do away with Clerics being priests and just let them be "crusaders" or something although thats more the Paladin's job.
But that, and balance the Cleric, thats the big part.
Less dependency on magic items
Class defense bonus is also a step toward making this easier.
Divine Warriors for all corners of the alignment matrix, not just LG (like paladin of honour, freedom, tyranny, slaughter), meybe for every single alignment. This, of course, should be one class with mostly similar abilities, with some specials to spice it up.
I dont like to think of them as Divine but yes. Let the Cleric be the magical servant of whatever, and the Paladin/Crusader/Champion be the warrior for the cause. Any cause.
Merlion: Feats could be easily supernatural. There are some FR feats that allow you to cast 0-level spells! Not to mention that the bloodline feats are supernatural or the metamagic feats that allow for added spice to spells.
0th level spells is one thing. Wild Shape, Divine Grace, spellcasting progression, Energy channeling etc wouldnt be apropriate as feats within a rigid class system. They are ment to be specfic class abilities. Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Oportunist and the like already seem like feats. They are simply physical skills or manuevers.
