Treebore
First Post
This is not a "review", this is just a compilation of my thoughts on the CKG as I originally posted on the TLG forums. I do not comment on editing or writing style, because I found those to be so insignificant as to not impact my thoughts on what I read. I am pretty much just going over what I liked, disliked, was unsure about, etc... So here they are:
I like a lot of the ideas in the class advancement, but I am definitely going to have to do some serious rewriting to have them work in a way acceptable to me. Some powers I think are way too weak to make them wait until such a high level to get, so will put them much earlier, others I still think should come earlier, but only by 2 to 4 levels, a few I actually like where the Trolls have them. So I have a lot of tweaking to do with these.
I don't think I am going to use the attribute modifier alternatives at all.
New races? I don't see me ever using these, I have too many other sources that I think will be easier to just adapt, but time will tell.
Now I like a lot of the ideas about spell books, components, and the like. So I have a lot of decision making to do with this material. I'm definitely going to make use of the Penance table on page 38, and not only with regards to holy symbols. I definitely love a printed material components list, which will definitely be handy, depending on which rules variant I go with. I am seriously considering imbuing the wand with components as well as the Holy Symbol, but still a lot of thinking to do.
I also like the spell purchase costs in general, because I much prefer them being affordable at low level, and much less so at higher levels, and definitely agree with the "prefer to trade spells" over selling them.
The discussion presented on Illusionists and how the Trolls "interpret" the Illusionist class is also of great interest to me, and has me much more open to allowing them to "heal" as well. Again, still more thinking and rereading for me to do here.
I have also been a fan of "Holy Ground" and am glad to see an official way to go about having them. Same for Unholy Ground, of course!
Their ideas on Holy Water, not so sure about. I like it in principal, but I think I will have to tweak it a bit to become something I want to have.
Alternative spell casting? I traditionally dislike Mana cost systems, because they typically make such classes that are already powerful even more so. This one is no different, a mage with an 18 INT can already cast 4 first level spells? So 4 sleep spells? Nope. Not happening. The Spell Slots and Quick Charge ideas are more to my liking. Plus the ideas presented elsewhere appeal to me even more.
I definitely like the expanded equipment chapter, in particular the new items covered, from food to the variety of wagons, ships, expanded carrying capacities in case I ever need them and even maintenance.
I've always loved the NPC section in the 1E DMG, so am thrilled to see C&C have their own version, not to mention some material construction rules. Plus HENCHMAN! Woot! Plus loyalty and morale guidelines are always a handy guideline, especially guidelines on how to increase or lose their loyalty and effect their morale, which is doubly important if you use the mass combat rules. They even covered creatures and even intelligent magic items. Good stuff!
Now the world building chapter goes into far more detail than I ever do when I build such things, which has only been twice in my life, I usually just buy published stuff, like Aihrde, Wilderlands, Greyhawk, Faerun, etc... So this is no big deal to me. Plus I have all of Gary's books, and Expeditious Retreats, plus a ton of Harn stuff, so I am not sure what source or source's I would refer to if I am ever inclined to build a world again.
Now the land movement guidelines, getting lost, etc... things like that are definitely of interest.
Same goes for the city chapter, lots of other sources I already own, but having so much of this stuff in one book is very appealing, but I'll have to use it to see how good it is compared to other resources I like to use. I do see myself using the population and occupation charts, I have always liked such charts since the 1E DMG. Crime and Punishment is always cool, but again, my question is which resource will I use when I next need them? Probably the CKG, but when it comes time I will then look and see which works best for me, so for now I do not know.
In the Dungeon section I definitely see myself using the wall hit points chart and the listening guidelines might get used and I definitely see myself getting into the traps section, I am a huge fan of Grimtooth for a reason.
The material on air and water I definitely see myself using, since I don't have a lot of alternative resources on those other than the DMG and some 3E books. So I see these as being my primary source due to it being for the system I am using.
Now on the Equipment wastage/usage, I like the idea, but I am not sold on whether or not I will want to take the time to use them. Still, good reading and food for thought.
Now Land as Treasure I am definitely a big fan of, and used in conjunction with MAgical Medievel Societies: Western Europe and Harn resources one could definitely create tons and tons of great stuff. So looking ofrward to pulling this into my future games.
The War section is an automatic win ever since I used the boxed set already released while running the Saltmarsh modules, so definitely a useful chapter to have, and then with the boxed set, pretty much all you can ask for in terms of a pretty easy to use mass combat system, and my group and I definitely had a great time with it.
Monster Ecology. I always like these and this chapter shows why. It helps get a CK's creative juices going, and helps us to step outside of any box we may find ourselves standing in. So a great chapter.
I found expanding the genre of interest because I have helped play test the hopefully still forthcoming Victorian supers game and even adapted the SIEGE engine to run a short term Traveller sci fi game, plus I also helped play test Star SIEGE. Plus played Go Fer Yer Gun on two occasions. So a good chapter to include if your like me and want to look at and use the SIEGE engine beyond fantasy.
Chapter 14 is definitely a great chapter, more for new CK's, but even us old CK's need some reminders and a different perspective to bounce our own off of. So a good read, old or new.
Now Chapter 15 I personally found to be of practically no use, but I think that is because i have found my answers to all of the questions brought up in this chapter. So for those still searching for such answers, you'll probably like this chapter.
Chapter 16 on Treasure is just full of awesome. I particularly love the example given of where the PC's are cheated by every merchant they went to, but since they were oblivious to being cheated they left the city happy. Plus the ideas given for spell and magic item creation are cool and the table giving the proper time to cast on top of the main key component is exactly the kind of rules I like.
I agree with Omote that Chapter 17 has a lot of good ideas, as well as good discussion, about combat, in C&C and pretty much any kind of RPG. I also like their quick and most importantly, simple, crit and fumble charts. The effects of terrain is once again a very interesting idea, but again I am not sure if I want to "weigh down" my games with it. Lots of good ideas are entertained here, though. Damage Reduction, Wound effects, and lots more are likely to be of interest.
Chapter 18 has a lot of interesting ideas too, of most interest to me are the Advantages, both Heritage and Combat.
Fans of Fate/Luck points will probably like Chapter 19 plus the Trolls give some good thoughts to the issue of PC deaths, and is an appropriate topic on which to end a book like the CKG.
I like a lot of the ideas in the class advancement, but I am definitely going to have to do some serious rewriting to have them work in a way acceptable to me. Some powers I think are way too weak to make them wait until such a high level to get, so will put them much earlier, others I still think should come earlier, but only by 2 to 4 levels, a few I actually like where the Trolls have them. So I have a lot of tweaking to do with these.
I don't think I am going to use the attribute modifier alternatives at all.
New races? I don't see me ever using these, I have too many other sources that I think will be easier to just adapt, but time will tell.
Now I like a lot of the ideas about spell books, components, and the like. So I have a lot of decision making to do with this material. I'm definitely going to make use of the Penance table on page 38, and not only with regards to holy symbols. I definitely love a printed material components list, which will definitely be handy, depending on which rules variant I go with. I am seriously considering imbuing the wand with components as well as the Holy Symbol, but still a lot of thinking to do.
I also like the spell purchase costs in general, because I much prefer them being affordable at low level, and much less so at higher levels, and definitely agree with the "prefer to trade spells" over selling them.
The discussion presented on Illusionists and how the Trolls "interpret" the Illusionist class is also of great interest to me, and has me much more open to allowing them to "heal" as well. Again, still more thinking and rereading for me to do here.
I have also been a fan of "Holy Ground" and am glad to see an official way to go about having them. Same for Unholy Ground, of course!
Their ideas on Holy Water, not so sure about. I like it in principal, but I think I will have to tweak it a bit to become something I want to have.
Alternative spell casting? I traditionally dislike Mana cost systems, because they typically make such classes that are already powerful even more so. This one is no different, a mage with an 18 INT can already cast 4 first level spells? So 4 sleep spells? Nope. Not happening. The Spell Slots and Quick Charge ideas are more to my liking. Plus the ideas presented elsewhere appeal to me even more.
I definitely like the expanded equipment chapter, in particular the new items covered, from food to the variety of wagons, ships, expanded carrying capacities in case I ever need them and even maintenance.
I've always loved the NPC section in the 1E DMG, so am thrilled to see C&C have their own version, not to mention some material construction rules. Plus HENCHMAN! Woot! Plus loyalty and morale guidelines are always a handy guideline, especially guidelines on how to increase or lose their loyalty and effect their morale, which is doubly important if you use the mass combat rules. They even covered creatures and even intelligent magic items. Good stuff!
Now the world building chapter goes into far more detail than I ever do when I build such things, which has only been twice in my life, I usually just buy published stuff, like Aihrde, Wilderlands, Greyhawk, Faerun, etc... So this is no big deal to me. Plus I have all of Gary's books, and Expeditious Retreats, plus a ton of Harn stuff, so I am not sure what source or source's I would refer to if I am ever inclined to build a world again.
Now the land movement guidelines, getting lost, etc... things like that are definitely of interest.
Same goes for the city chapter, lots of other sources I already own, but having so much of this stuff in one book is very appealing, but I'll have to use it to see how good it is compared to other resources I like to use. I do see myself using the population and occupation charts, I have always liked such charts since the 1E DMG. Crime and Punishment is always cool, but again, my question is which resource will I use when I next need them? Probably the CKG, but when it comes time I will then look and see which works best for me, so for now I do not know.
In the Dungeon section I definitely see myself using the wall hit points chart and the listening guidelines might get used and I definitely see myself getting into the traps section, I am a huge fan of Grimtooth for a reason.
The material on air and water I definitely see myself using, since I don't have a lot of alternative resources on those other than the DMG and some 3E books. So I see these as being my primary source due to it being for the system I am using.
Now on the Equipment wastage/usage, I like the idea, but I am not sold on whether or not I will want to take the time to use them. Still, good reading and food for thought.
Now Land as Treasure I am definitely a big fan of, and used in conjunction with MAgical Medievel Societies: Western Europe and Harn resources one could definitely create tons and tons of great stuff. So looking ofrward to pulling this into my future games.
The War section is an automatic win ever since I used the boxed set already released while running the Saltmarsh modules, so definitely a useful chapter to have, and then with the boxed set, pretty much all you can ask for in terms of a pretty easy to use mass combat system, and my group and I definitely had a great time with it.
Monster Ecology. I always like these and this chapter shows why. It helps get a CK's creative juices going, and helps us to step outside of any box we may find ourselves standing in. So a great chapter.
I found expanding the genre of interest because I have helped play test the hopefully still forthcoming Victorian supers game and even adapted the SIEGE engine to run a short term Traveller sci fi game, plus I also helped play test Star SIEGE. Plus played Go Fer Yer Gun on two occasions. So a good chapter to include if your like me and want to look at and use the SIEGE engine beyond fantasy.
Chapter 14 is definitely a great chapter, more for new CK's, but even us old CK's need some reminders and a different perspective to bounce our own off of. So a good read, old or new.
Now Chapter 15 I personally found to be of practically no use, but I think that is because i have found my answers to all of the questions brought up in this chapter. So for those still searching for such answers, you'll probably like this chapter.
Chapter 16 on Treasure is just full of awesome. I particularly love the example given of where the PC's are cheated by every merchant they went to, but since they were oblivious to being cheated they left the city happy. Plus the ideas given for spell and magic item creation are cool and the table giving the proper time to cast on top of the main key component is exactly the kind of rules I like.
I agree with Omote that Chapter 17 has a lot of good ideas, as well as good discussion, about combat, in C&C and pretty much any kind of RPG. I also like their quick and most importantly, simple, crit and fumble charts. The effects of terrain is once again a very interesting idea, but again I am not sure if I want to "weigh down" my games with it. Lots of good ideas are entertained here, though. Damage Reduction, Wound effects, and lots more are likely to be of interest.
Chapter 18 has a lot of interesting ideas too, of most interest to me are the Advantages, both Heritage and Combat.
Fans of Fate/Luck points will probably like Chapter 19 plus the Trolls give some good thoughts to the issue of PC deaths, and is an appropriate topic on which to end a book like the CKG.
