My Wife Has a List of Demands! Part Two: Wildshape

[Number48]

I disagree. I can say that one of the things I hated most about 3E was the profusion of fiddly little modifiers for this and that and the other thing. Adjusting your character's stats on the fly is one of the things I was very happy to see gone (mostly) in 4E.

What I would like to see from Wildshape is simple: A statblock for each animal you can turn into. Anything in that statblock overrides your own stats. It might have to be finessed a little (do you lose your knowledge of Arcana because you turn into a hawk?), but that's the general direction.

I'm gonna repeat it, I don't think we have the information to say that for that assessment. We don't know if 5E will have fiddly bits for spotting things. We don't know if it will have the Spot skill. We don't know if it will have any skills! It might be that a +3 bonus would work great because there are damn few skill bonuses in 5E. Who knows?

I don't want a statblock for each animal. If we can do it with offering choice, then that is the way to go. If every druid turns into the same eagle, that's a little dull. It also makes assumptions about my game world that requires more work if I'm running something more exotic. If I have a Pleistocene-era style game I can easily work the prehistoric animals into a choose-3 setting. If the statblocks are pre-assigned I have to look at the druid player and tell him that 9 of 10 of these don't exist.

 

[DonTadow]

My marriage is in serious trouble ever since 2008 put us on opposite sides of and edition war. So much that I almost tried converting to Pathfinder of all things, despite my revulsion for all things Paizo*. Unfortunately, they actually moved the disputed issues in the same direction as Wizards, so that was ruled out. I agree with her on the points but I liked other aspects of 4E enough to not want to run 3e anymore.

I have my concerns that 5th Edition will not include these things. So I am hoping to rally support and find out if others feel the same.

Demand two: Wildshape

Oh for the love of all that is holy. (Or Primal even.)

Can we please see an option where I can play a druid that can turn into an animal for NON COMBAT UTILITY? I can see adjusting the bonus, I turn into an eagle, maybe I can't see as well as an eagle, but let me see better.

Neither PF* or 4e even attempted to address this so I'm kinda annoyed. Hell, if it wasn't for this issue I'd have grafted 3.5 skills onto Pathfinder and called it a day.

*[sblock]If Pathfinder adresses this please tell me specifically how and where.[/sblock]

pathfinder does allow u to wildshape for mundane tasks. Pathfinder does not have the per encounter limit, so you can wildshape to your hearts desire. I don't think that every creative use of an animal needs to be implied.

 

[WOLead]

pathfinder does allow u to wildshape for mundane tasks. Pathfinder does not have the per encounter limit, so you can wildshape to your hearts desire. I don't think that every creative use of an animal needs to be implied.

I thought Wildshape was limited to 1/day, 2/day, etc. until you hit level 20 in Pathfinder?

 

[Phaezen]

4e Druids can adopt shapes for utility purposes. Most levels with utility powers have a power that gives you the ability to turn into an animal and gain specific, non combat, abilities.

 

[SlyDoubt]

I disagree. I can say that one of the things I hated most about 3E was the profusion of fiddly little modifiers for this and that and the other thing. Adjusting your character's stats on the fly is one of the things I was very happy to see gone (mostly) in 4E.

What I would like to see from Wildshape is simple: A statblock for each animal you can turn into. Anything in that statblock overrides your own stats. It might have to be finessed a little (do you lose your knowledge of Arcana because you turn into a hawk?), but that's the general direction.

This made me laugh.

So once you turn into a hawk you can never turn back into a druid! Now you're just a hawk.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Here's my simple fix for wildshape/polymorph. You look up the creature in the mm. Those are your stats. You shapechange to a bear, you ARE a bear. You get all the bear's abilities, hit points, etc. You keep your mental stats, but since bears don't have hands and can't speak, you can't cast spells. Polymorph intto a troll? You get regenerate, the troll's attacks, etc. But you can't fight as a troll AND cast spells, because trolls don't cast spells.

 

[DonTadow]

Here's my simple fix for wildshape/polymorph. You look up the creature in the mm. Those are your stats. You shapechange to a bear, you ARE a bear. You get all the bear's abilities, hit points, etc. You keep your mental stats, but since bears don't have hands and can't speak, you can't cast spells. Polymorph intto a troll? You get regenerate, the troll's attacks, etc. But you can't fight as a troll AND cast spells, because trolls don't cast spells.

Sorry, that just didnt work in 3.5, just way too much overpowering and a huge banning of druids played in a lot of campaigns.

What i was getting at was that you can wildshape outside of combat, but like any power you have a limit to when you can do it. And I believe yo ucan stay wildshaped for a bit.

 

[Dausuul]

Here's my simple fix for wildshape/polymorph. You look up the creature in the mm. Those are your stats. You shapechange to a bear, you ARE a bear. You get all the bear's abilities, hit points, etc. You keep your mental stats, but since bears don't have hands and can't speak, you can't cast spells. Polymorph intto a troll? You get regenerate, the troll's attacks, etc. But you can't fight as a troll AND cast spells, because trolls don't cast spells.

It's still going to be a gigantic headache for the designers when creating monsters, because of monster abilities that become horribly abusable in player hands.

Wildshape isn't so bad because it's limited to natural animals, which is a very small subset and not likely to see a lot of expansion. But when you can polymorph into a babau demon, polymorph = greater teleport at will. Polymorph into a wraith and you can pass through walls. Heck, your own example of polymorphing into a troll turns you into an unkillable tank when facing foes that lack fire and acid damage.

That's why polymorph became such a headache in 3E. The designers kept playing whack-a-mole with all the ways it could be abused. I'm pretty sure 5E polymorph will be limited to a known set of carefully vetted monsters; it may even take the form of a distinct spell for each monster.

 

[WOLead]

That's why polymorph became such a headache in 3E. The designers kept playing whack-a-mole with all the ways it could be abused. I'm pretty sure 5E polymorph will be limited to a known set of carefully vetted monsters; it may even take the form of a distinct spell for each monster.

That, or specific stat blocks available at different levels of druid for certain archetypes of creatures. Extra-senses, Physical Abilities, and extra-modes of movement or breathing as expected, and increasing strength at each Tier, opening at certain levels when appropriate, and special ones assigned to Paragon Paths. Let the player assign a shape/animal to the stat block used.

I just wished they had a "When you wildshape into your beast form, choose Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. While in your beast form, you can use Wisdom in place for the chosen Ability Checks and use Wisdom modifier instead of the chosen ability in related skill checks. If you choose Strength, you can make Bull Rush attacks using your Wisdom modifier instead of Strength. If you choose Dexterity, you may use your Wisdom modifier instead for Grab attacks instead of Strength. If you choose Constitution, you may use your Wisdom Score in place of Intelligence or Dexterity for calculating AC in Light Armor." in 4e.