Myconids, how to use them?

[eamon]

The myconid sovereign's recharge is pretty likely, too, at 50%. His melee attack isn't great, but it's not terrible either: I'd say he wants to be fairly close to melee therefore.

Basically, looks like if you have a few of them, they can be quite effective tactically. Daze vs. will in a blast is pretty nasty at level 4, and the damage distribution effect means that it'll be hard for PC's to focus their damage. Even the guards have a daze-like encounter power.

 

[Runestar]

Hang on here, just because a monster attack is weak doesn't mean the monster won't use it.

I sense you're looking at your monsters with a player's eye - looking to pick the best deals out of a big selection.

Well, if you do, don't.

Which seems to go against the dnd 4e's philosophy of monster design, which suggests that monsters will not have useless abilities. Instead, they will be designed to properly challenge the PCs and provide an engaging multi-round battle.

So the assumption here is that the DM will run his monsters intelligently and use their powers to the best of his ability. This means that its powers should synergize with their tactics well.

Simply put, each monster is more or less a 1-trick pony which happens to excel in that one role very well. All abilities should be geared towards making it better at said role, rather than detract from it.

Its also worth remembering that some creatures will have set preconceptions of "how to hunt", usually animals, these creatures will try and apply those methods to PCs even when that might not be wise.

Again, that was tossed out of the window in 4e, IIRC.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Which seems to go against the dnd 4e's philosophy of monster design, which suggests that monsters will not have useless abilities. Instead, they will be designed to properly challenge the PCs and provide an engaging multi-round battle.

So the assumption here is that the DM will run his monsters intelligently and use their powers to the best of his ability. This means that its powers should synergize with their tactics well.

Simply put, each monster is more or less a 1-trick pony which happens to excel in that one role very well. All abilities should be geared towards making it better at said role, rather than detract from it.

Well... don't carry this whole notion too far. Monsters are designed to be fun to fight with. That can involve aspects of the monster designed to present interesting tactics to use against the party. It can also involve aspects of the monster that are purely there for "flavor" reasons. Other reasons might include potentially interesting role play opportunities.

Nor were all monsters necessarily designed by someone who is a tactical genius. Some abilities might seem contradictory or ineffective and it could be they ARE, but it could also be they add depth to the monster or give them options that may not be obviously useful in the context where a particular DM used the monster or the situation that an actual party encountered.

I've certainly had any number of monsters which had powers that never came into play or didn't end up being used effectively. Happens in almost any non-trivial encounter to some extent. I wouldn't call them poorly designed monsters. Maybe the DM didn't employ them to their best effect but just as likely those other powers would have been useful against a different party or in a different encounter.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

I had myconids as protagonists in a recent re-write of Forge of Fury I ran my players through, and ended up changing many of their abilities. I also created other specialised myconids, such as an artillery build that was able to grant extra actions to minions, as well as a rotpriest variant that commanded fungal shambling mounds. See attached. My myconids could not speak (they communicate with each other through scent) but could understand some sign language they had been taught by nearby orcs (with whom they had some mutually beneficial living arrangements).

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Siran Dunmorgan]

I think the thing about the Myconids is that with a bunch of them together (especially with a Rotpriest), they have a lot of choice as to when each of them dies. So the Rotpriest can start out by wading into melee ahead of the Guards and use decomposing spray for a few turns -- then when the accumulated damage starts to add up, it can fall back to the other 'nids before deliberately sacrificing itself for a Life Burst.

Shift-giving doesn't seem like much, but it's pretty nice for setting up flanks and getting the most out of the other creatures' bursts. I sort of see the Sovereign as mostly standing a few squares back, occasionally darting in to blast Spore Burst when it recharges. It has good AC and Fort, though, so it's not really bad at all in close combat.

"They have a lot of choice as to when each of them dies."

This gets to the core of the matter with Myconids, particularly in light of what we read in the Player's Handbook combat rules with respect to rendering creatures unconscious. [1]

Reducing a creature to zero hit points—or less—does not necessarily kill the creature. It may only render them unconscious, at the discretion of the character using the power or ability that did the damage.

In the case of a rotpriest using Sacrifice for the Colony, that woulld be itself, or any other Myconid using Roots of the Colony, i.e., they can choose to render each other unconscious, rather than killing one another.

Since the rotpriest healing power triggers on being reduced to 0 hit points—not dying, but being reduced to 0—the rotpriest can thus remain alive, but unconscious. If there are two or more rotpriests in the encounter, they can, in theory, "see-saw" each other, with the healing burst of one bringing another back to consciousness, albeit with only ten hit points.

A party of adventurers could even "kill" a colony, with most of the damage being distributed through Roots of the Colony, only to discover—after a short rest—that the majority of Myconids were only rendered unconscious, not dead.

—Siran Dunmorgan


[1] I believe it's on page 295, but I'm relying on memory, and could be incorrect as to the page number: I am certain about the rule itself, however.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

In the case of a rotpriest using Sacrifice for the Colony, that woulld be itself, or any other Myconid using Roots of the Colony, i.e., they can choose to render each other unconscious, rather than killing one another.

Since the rotpriest healing power triggers on being reduced to 0 hit points—not dying, but being reduced to 0—the rotpriest can thus remain alive, but unconscious. If there are two or more rotpriests in the encounter, they can, in theory, "see-saw" each other, with the healing burst of one bringing another back to consciousness, albeit with only ten hit points.

This is true. Maybe into the margin of the realm of "dirty pool" but it seems definitely within the rules. Worst case its a tactic that won't HURT the Myconids any, lol.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

But this, even if dirty, is one thing i expect from fungi: beeing able to regrow.

 

[msherman]

Damn, I wish I still had my old AD&D modules from when I was a kid. I vaguely remember A4 used the myconids in an interesting way (more misunderstood than enemy, with the potential to avoid fighting them if the party cared to try), but it's been so long since I read it.

 

[msherman]

Oh, and now I can't stop thinking about them. I've got an underground scenario coming up in a few games, if the party stays on the path they're currently on. Anyone got any suggestions for levelling up myconids (or other monsters to add/reskin) for a level 8 party?

 

[sfedi]

Yes, I would redo the controller Myconid. It's super lame.

Make it create a zone, and sustain it.

Spores, zones, they are good together