Mystic soulknife questions

[tglassy]

They aren't underpowered. They don't use Disciplines to do damage. They use their blades. Their disciplines are for utility. The other types use them during combat, and need lots of utility. Soul Knifes are going to just be hitting things with their blades during combat.

 

[zaratan]

They aren't underpowered. They don't use Disciplines to do damage. They use their blades. Their disciplines are for utility. The other types use them during combat, and need lots of utility. Soul Knifes are going to just be hitting things with their blades during combat.

The damage is really small unless they use discipline to bump it. They have so many uses for bonus action that in the end they can't combine their strenght.
At lvl 5 any mystic can do 2d10 (11) with talent, soul knife will do 2d8+4(13), but need to burn his bonus action every turn. At lvl 8 talent will do 2d10+5(16), soul knife 3d8+5(18.5). Lvl 11 talent do 3d10+5 (20.5)

Soul knife lost 2 disciplines for this too.
Consumptive knife looks nice, but with so many uses for bonus action, soul knife is the one that do less use of mystical recovery, with lower the use of consumptive power. Soul knife will probably bump dex before Int, worse for any save effect they need. How I see, soul knife is the one (except immortal) that can do less utility stuffs with disciplines.

Both damage are lower than most classes can archieve, they need to burn lot of resources to get at standard damage. I think this is ok, since they have so much versatility.

 

[neogod22]

What's wrong with your math? They would get 4d8+5 at level 8. The extra 1d8 applies to all attacks. Not only that, but they can still use talents just like every other Mystic and is not barred from any discipline. Your only valid argument is that they trade 2 extra disciplines for the knives. Actually, the knives work better, because that is the only order that allows you to recover psi points, so using your points to boost damage isn't very bad. They actually have one of the most useful level 6 abilities.

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[neogod22]

Not only will the extra d8s apply to both knives, so would the +(×) from hone the blade, and the +3 from lethal strike if they are used.

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[neogod22]

So if he had a 20 DEX at level 8, his attacks on the second round should be +10 to hit, 2d8+10 psychic damage, and +10 to hit, 2d8+5 psychic damage. That's more damage than the talents.

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[neogod22]

Wait, it does say once per turn, but still still 1d8+5 damage.

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[zaratan]

So if he had a 20 DEX at level 8, his attacks on the second round should be +10 to hit, 2d8+10 psychic damage, and +10 to hit, 2d8+5 psychic damage. That's more damage than the talents.

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In fact is +13 at 8 with proficiency. "Once on each of your turn". Don't apply even in AoO. 3d8+15 at third round (first bonus action to get soul knife, second for augmented weapon, you only start to use the off hand at third), half of encounter was gone, for 10 pp, you can do this 4 times day, for the cost of all your resources. Your bonus action is stuck with an attack every turn to get that damage, or you can burn even more pp for your nova, but forget the off hand attack in that turn. You didn't recover one single hp with mystical recovery, good luck trying to burn some hp for pp at lvl 10 with comsuptive power. In fact, good luck keeping alive being a frontliner with ac 17, and d8 of hp. You'll need to pick disciplines to bump your defense, harder for you who has 2 less. Your int is 16 instead of 20, easier to save than other mystics.

For 10 pp in a round I probably would prefer to use psychic crush for 7, or psychic grip for 6, or mind storm for 5, conjure two shadows for 3, or overwhelming attack for 7 (ready it to an ally turn, so he can get extra attack) or maybe with victory before combat to drop down half of the encounter before they can act.

Mystic have great versatility, but not good at will damage. Soul knife looks like he is trying to swim against the tide, burning all they versatility to get an "ok" damage compared with standard martial classes. The idea of make him a dual weapon fighter with 63739282764 another uses for bonus action is really bad idea.

 

[zaratan]

This post bring some light to me, to soul knife work well, vetter be a hogh elf or get magic initiate to booming blade and/or green flame blade. Dump this stupid bonus action attack and free ypur bonus action to parry, recover hp, use lethal strike or any other discipline. They still lack 2 lass disciplines, but really can work that way, at least better than immortal, another bad concept.

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[neogod22]

In fact is +13 at 8 with proficiency. "Once on each of your turn". Don't apply even in AoO. 3d8+15 at third round (first bonus action to get soul knife, second for augmented weapon, you only start to use the off hand at third), half of encounter was gone, for 10 pp, you can do this 4 times day, for the cost of all your resources. Your bonus action is stuck with an attack every turn to get that damage, or you can burn even more pp for your nova, but forget the off hand attack in that turn. You didn't recover one single hp with mystical recovery, good luck trying to burn some hp for pp at lvl 10 with comsuptive power. In fact, good luck keeping alive being a frontliner with ac 17, and d8 of hp. You'll need to pick disciplines to bump your defense, harder for you who has 2 less. Your int is 16 instead of 20, easier to save than other mystics.

For 10 pp in a round I probably would prefer to use psychic crush for 7, or psychic grip for 6, or mind storm for 5, conjure two shadows for 3, or overwhelming attack for 7 (ready it to an ally turn, so he can get extra attack) or maybe with victory before combat to drop down half of the encounter before they can act.

Mystic have great versatility, but not good at will damage. Soul knife looks like he is trying to swim against the tide, burning all they versatility to get an "ok" damage compared with standard martial classes. The idea of make him a dual weapon fighter with 63739282764 another uses for bonus action is really bad idea.

Why would you be a frontliner? This is clearly not a class to be taking hits, and this is clearly not intended to be a healer either, you don't need to use your bonus action to heal, a healer in the group can do that job, or you can still use your short rest to spend hit dice. At this point in the game, the soul knife is on part to do more damage than the rogue, and if you spend your time mopping up trash mobs instead of trying to be a "frontliner," you can recover the psi points you spent. The soul knife is actually built to not have to use a lot of psi points, and the ability to recover them gives them sustainably.

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[neogod22]

The 2 extra disciplines don't mean much at this level, because you can only use one power at a time anyway for the most part. Sure some disciplines allow you to do more damage on a 1 time attack, but unless you're gonna keep spending psi points every round, there is no sustainability, not only that, but as I said before, the soul knife isn't barred from any discipline, so whatever strategy you have for your mystic can apply to the soul knife.

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