Mystical Thurge

[sithramir]

If you are playing lower levels for most ot eh campaign it may not be fun to play a MT.

However, if you are starting (or will spend the bulk of the time) at level 10 and up then it's one of the best mixes. I've played one at 18th level and up into an epic campaign and it was just amazing. The campaign was not much battle so my guy ruled being able to do diviniations, scry, teleport, read someone's mind, charm someone, fly, basically do anything because he had access to enough spells to do that.

In battle, he was very powerful at the higher levels. Before Epic he didn't have ninth level spells but when you mix the buffing of a cleric and a wizard and the blasting of both classes together it's insane.

I'd suggest you try it with Sorcerer with Turn Undead and Divine Metamagic as well. There is now the option to trade your familiar and instead get quickened spells equal to you're intelligence. Using these both you can have a character that can quicken several spells and just be an onslaught of defensive and offensive magics.

Permanency is nice as well.

 

[Votan]

Actually, with Practised Spellcaster, the pure firepower of the MT is not much lower than a singleclass wizards. Ok, you can't blast enemies with the high level spells, but you can waste them with the low level ones

Yeah, but isn't that what the sorcerer does? Oodles of lower level spells and a single casting stat seem to be a slightly better deal.

The bonuses due to multi-classing in terms of being tougher don't seem to be outweighed by the terrible BAB and the mostly d4 levels of the mystic theurge. What can't a sorcerer do more effectively?

And, given the assumption of Practiced Caster and multiple casting stats, remember a wizard, cleric or sorcerer has more feats to diversify.

Now, at epic levels, if you can find a way to break the no-dual progression of the MT, this is a nasty combination. Because at some point you are like any other epic caster except with 2 classes worth of spells.

 

[Brimshack]

I'm running a Mystical Theurge right now, Teth-Anne from my story hour. She had a really painful journey to MT, going 3/4 Cleric/Sorcerer. She was painfully useless in combat all the way through level 7, but with 3 levels under her belt and practiced spellcster applied to her Arcane class she is doing fine. It's a campaign of one-offs too, so the extra spells aren't really playing out over time; it's all over in one session. I'm quite happy with her at present, but I must say the journey to MT was rather tough.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I like looking for stuff you can do from combining the 2 spell lists together. Like Someone said, spectral hand and healing/inflict spells. Or contingency and clerical spells. Possibly permenancy if your GM allows it.

now, mystical theurge allowed with a gestalt class, THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT!

If you're going down that route, why not mix up Wizard/Psion/Cleric/Mystic Theurge/Cerebremancer?

 

[Magesmiley]

As has been pointed out, the fact that you're 3 levels below normal in your spellcasting hurts. The trick is to make sure that your style of play doesn't rely on having the most powerful spells available. This tends to favor the casters who don't rely on big flashy spells.

One way to do this is to concentrate on buff spells. Multiple lower-level spells can often stack together to provide a benefit superior to that of a higher-level spell. Look for these spells - there are often similar spells on the divine and arcane lists which have similar effects, but which provide different bonus types. The only catch is that you need more time to cast them. Buff spells are also nice in that you don't have to worry about your opponent shrugging off the spell with a save or SR - they're just as effective if you're facing a CR 3 monster as a CR 10.

Another area that often gets overlooked is counterspelling. With the huge arsenal of spells you have available, the chances of having something to use as a counterspell are pretty good. If you're facing an enemy caster it might be best to simply stay put and counter the other caster's spells. Make sure you prep multiple dispel magics if you go this route, after all its on both the cleric and wizard list.

 

[Brimshack]

Yes, Buff spells, Practiced Spell-caster, and Divine Metamagic are all good. To enhance Divine Metamagic, you might pick a God that has a number of elements as its domains, then take one extra turning feat. (Or has this loophole been closed in errata?)

One thing that is helping my character and with a high Intelligence Wizared you could do it too is careful choices on skills as well. You'll have enough points to work with, pick skills that others won't have but which could be useful to the campaign. For me it was Charisma based skills, but that's the Sorcerer talking. With a high intelligence, you might try some craft or Profession skills, but also get Sense Motive in there and at least Diplomacy if you can manage it.

 

[Darklone]

Yeah, but isn't that what the sorcerer does? Oodles of lower level spells and a single casting stat seem to be a slightly better deal.

The bonuses due to multi-classing in terms of being tougher don't seem to be outweighed by the terrible BAB and the mostly d4 levels of the mystic theurge. What can't a sorcerer do more effectively?

And, given the assumption of Practiced Caster and multiple casting stats, remember a wizard, cleric or sorcerer has more feats to diversify.

Now, at epic levels, if you can find a way to break the no-dual progression of the MT, this is a nasty combination. Because at some point you are like any other epic caster except with 2 classes worth of spells.

You're right, that makes me believe the class is balanced.

But your comparison with a sorcerer is flawed since the MT has so many spells to know... plus he can cast a lot. He's weaker than a sorcerer in other regards...

Different, but similar