Naming Fourth Edition

[Raven Crowking]

How would you name:
A wild, faerie plane?
The descendents of dragons?
The plane where dead souls go?
The fey inhabitants of the Feywild?

(1) Faerie. Not something you can stick a trademark on, but solid and understood.
(2) Spartoi. The warriors springing up from dragon's teeth in Greek mythology. Or, better yet, ditch them from the PHB & bring back the classic races.
(3) Limbo. In my campaign, this is Grey Lymbo, of the Grey Plains.
(4) Faerie, or Fey, or Sidhe.

People use mythological titles when they can, IMHO, because they carry a strong resonnance within our culture (whether you like that or not), indicating clearly not only what is meant, but also what sort of "feel" one is attempting to achieve. J.R.R. Tolkien's notes for translating LotR speak much to what he wanted to accomplish with the names he chose for people and places; this is no different IMHO.

Names that have not been used before in anything are, simply put, less powerful than names which already have cultural associations. Which is why people often buy Baby Name books, but seldom just make up random crap. YMMV.

I am guessing that WotC isn't using the obvious because you can't claim Limbo as your intellectual property. Which makes sense from a company standpoint, but isn't (IMHO) the best thing for the game.

RC

 

[Elphilm]

I must admit I take a kind of twisted pleasure at these 'well what would *you* call it..?' threads, because without fail there are hardly any suggestions that are not:-

2. Ripped off from other mythological or fictional sources.

I guess I just don't see the problem with this. OD&D stole stuff from left and right without shame and that has been the defining feature of D&D for me. The handful of stuff Gygax and co. invented by themselves were whimsical more than anything - gelatinous cubes come to mind.

People say (truthfully, I think) that nowadays D&D is its own genre. That's all fine and dandy, but the thing is that I don't particularly like that genre. I prefer my D&D as a joyous, postmodern mishmash of different writers' most brilliant creations - the archetypal game where Conan, Elric and Aragorn team up against a horde of degenerate Serpent Men led by Mazirian the Magician in the world of Earthsea! Of course one should proudly ransack world mythology for that type of gaming as well.

Also, what Raven said.

 

[wedgeski]

I guess I just don't see the problem with this. OD&D stole stuff from left and right without shame and that has been the defining feature of D&D for me. The handful of stuff Gygax and co. invented by themselves were whimsical more than anything - gelatinous cubes come to mind.

People say (truthfully, I think) that nowadays D&D is its own genre. That's all fine and dandy, but the thing is that I don't particularly like that genre. I prefer my D&D as a joyous, postmodern mishmash of different writers' most brilliant creations - the archetypal game where Conan, Elric and Aragorn team up against a horde of degenerate Serpent Men led by Mazirian the Magician in the world of Earthsea! Of course one should proudly ransack world mythology for that type of gaming as well.

I don't share that view, but interesting points, nonetheless.

I do think the world has moved on from the point where you could build a game from a hodge-podge of... well not even influences, but direct rip-offs of other works. I *certainly* think that Wizards would just be creamed if they started doing the same thing now. They have the in-house talent to build their own beast, and they need to use it. I think it's better to have an original name that splits opinion than a copy that folks shrug their shoulders at and go, "Meh, that'll do."

 

[Umbran]

So no Hades, no Shadowlands (Exalted), no Draconians (Dragonlance). Come up with New Words for them, not old ones that are public domain.

Thing is, new words don't carry meaning in and of themselves. Let us say I have a new race, and I call them the "quafoodle" - that tells you exactly zero about them. Without some reference, the names fail to be evocative.

Note that generally, the old names weren't new words. Dwarf, elf, and Hades were called what they were so that folks would have a handle on the thing. Sure, in each case the game's version differed from the mythological or fictional referent, but they retained enough similarities to bring up images in your mind.

"Shadowlands", btw, didn't originate with Exalted. That's another old name for the fey places in a good deal of literature.

 

[D.Shaffer]

People who assume that Faerie is a place where there are pretty girls and dew on flowers are right. But Faerie is also a plane of brutal natural expansion, rampant wilderness, etc. These images are not incompatible.

It's still got to much modern baggage attached to it. If you tell a story about how your characters are going to the strange and terrible world of the fairies, most people are going to stare at you funny because, in our modern culture, thats what we expect when we hear the word. We hear 'fairy' and we dont think of the inhuman, distant beings who'd hit you with elfshot if you talked about them funny, we think of Tinkerbell, and Barbie in Fairyland, and a land filled with pink and rainbows suitable only for little girls. It's been sanitized to the point that the world isnt effective for adventure anymore. Heck, I know about the more nasty versions, and even then that's the first thing that springs to mind.

 

[Hussar]

(2) Spartoi. The warriors springing up from dragon's teeth in Greek mythology. Or, better yet, ditch them from the PHB & bring back the classic races.

THIS

IS

SPARTOI!!!!

ahem.

Seriously though, "Motherforest"? Come on, can you not see the adolescent giggles around the table as that one gets trotted out? Motherforest to you too! Get me a shrubbery! Just way too easy to mangle.

And, let's get away from stuff that's hard to pronounce. Sidhe, while I know the way to say it, would boggle the mind of many people. "Sid Hee"? Besides that, why is our fey area being locked into a Celtic mythology? Can't I have stuff that's African in flavour hanging around there?

Let's spread the flavour around a little wider no?

 

[Lord Zack]

How would you name:
A wild, faerie plane? Faerie
The descendents of dragons? Half-Dragons, Spawn of Tiamat or Draconic creatures, depending on the particular circumstances
The plane where dead souls go? the Outer Planes usually
The fey inhabitants of the Feywild? Sidhe

Oh wait, that's just like 3e.

 

[Lanefan]

Seriously though, "Motherforest"? Come on, can you not see the adolescent giggles around the table as that one gets trotted out? Motherforest to you too! Get me a shrubbery! Just way too easy to mangle.

Touche. Motherforest idea hereby withdrawn.

And, let's get away from stuff that's hard to pronounce. Sidhe, while I know the way to say it, would boggle the mind of many people. "Sid Hee"? Besides that, why is our fey area being locked into a Celtic mythology? Can't I have stuff that's African in flavour hanging around there?

Let's spread the flavour around a little wider no?

Fine. Norse for the afterlife. Celtic for the fey realm. Greek for the gods. Roman for the enemy. Add other ingredients as desired, and mix.

Hey, it works for me...

Lanefan

 

[resistor]

It's still got to much modern baggage attached to it. If you tell a story about how your characters are going to the strange and terrible world of the fairies, most people are going to stare at you funny because, in our modern culture, thats what we expect when we hear the word. We hear 'fairy' and we dont think of the inhuman, distant beings who'd hit you with elfshot if you talked about them funny, we think of Tinkerbell, and Barbie in Fairyland, and a land filled with pink and rainbows suitable only for little girls. It's been sanitized to the point that the world isnt effective for adventure anymore. Heck, I know about the more nasty versions, and even then that's the first thing that springs to mind.

Really? The first thing that springs to my mind is A Midsummer Night's Dream, followed by Pan's Labyrinth, followed distantly by the Seelie/Unseelie Courts. The first two, at least, are things that a large percentage of people are aware of (Midsummer's has been required reading for most people I know, and Pan's Labyrinth was pretty popular). You'll note that all of them include the concept of less-than-friendly faeries.

Maybe I'm just weird though.

 

[rounser]

2. Ripped off from other mythological or fictional sources.

Ripping off mythology is exactly what they should be doing! That's what it's for! That's where D&D gets it's "mythological resonance"!

Mythological resonance is good; arbitrary, contrived and "kewl-sounding" names bad. There's also the technique of appropriating a real but disused word (say, paladin) and redefining it's meaning into a new mold, if there's no direct fit.