Natural Attacks and Adamantine Body

[clark411]

Couple quick Questions:

1) Are Warforged slam attacks modified by Mithril Skin or Adamantine Body?

2) Can a Warforged theoretically rip off a limb of its own, or use the limb of a fallen Warforged with Adamantine Body and use this as an improvised weapon, say a club, to bypass hardness / adamantine DR?

Thoughts? Facts? Suggestions from others using the setting?

 

[The Souljourner]

1.) Doesn't say so, so no. While the descriptive text talks about a layer of adamantine on the warforged, the benefits are pretty clearly laid out in the "benefit" section.

2.) Since you can't use your own fists as adamantine weapons, I can't see allowing using someone else's fists as adamantine weapons. Think of it this way - the warforged isn't solid admantine, just reinforced with it.

-The Souljourner

 

[Methos of Aundair]

Somewhere in the Ask Keith thread (can't remember if its on this board or the WizCo one) the question came up on whether a warforged with the adamantine body feat would bypass DR due to his adamantine body. Keith stated no, his body was reinforced with adamantine, not comprised solely of it. Using this as a reference I would then believe that no, you could not rip off the arm of another warforged and use it as a club to bypass DR. If that was the case, than why couldn't you use your own arm, or slam attack?

NOTE: I am quoting the Ask Keith thread from memory, not from direct text, so do not take it as absolute fact. If you are curious about his original statements, please search those threads.

 

[Teslacoil1138]

It's always good to use severed limbs as improvised clubs

I had a Wookiee in a Star Wars game once who got his arm half-blown off by a Trandoshan, then ripped off his own useless arm and proceeded to beat the Trandoshan with it. It was great.

 

[frankthedm]

The Warforged juggernut PrC grows adamantine body spikes on first level, so thats the path one should head for golem busting. since they are spikes however most objects will not be adversly affected.

Smashing an Object

Smashing a weapon or shield with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon is accomplished by the sunder special attack. Smashing an object is a lot like sundering a weapon or shield, except that your attack roll is opposed by the object’s AC. Generally, you can smash an object only with a bludgeoning or slashing weapon.

 

[Ahrimon]

Doesn't is say somewhere in the rules that if you have damage reduction of a cirtain type then you can bypass that type when attacking with natural attacks? For example if you have damage reduction 5/magic then all of you natural attacks are considered magical for the sake of the attack?

If so then why wouldn't a warforged with damage resistance 1/adamantium bypass a golems damage reduction with thier slam attack? It's not like you can do much with a slam attack anyway. They are probably better off using thier normal weapon. I wouldn't let them treat thier attacks as adamantium weapons for anything other than bypassing damage resistance though.

Ahrimon

[Edit: some quick formating]

 

[frankthedm]

Doesn't is say somewhere in the rules that if you have damage reduction of a cirtain type then you can bypass that type when attacking with natural attacks? For example if you have damage reduction 5/magic then all of you natural attacks are considered magical for the sake of the attack?

3.5 closed that little loophole for DR, Only alignment, epic and magic get it.

DAMAGE REDUCTION

Some magic creatures have the supernatural ability to instantly heal damage from weapons or to ignore blows altogether as though they were invulnerable.

The numerical part of a creature’s damage reduction is the amount of hit points the creature ignores from normal attacks. Usually, a certain type of weapon can overcome this reduction. This information is separated from the damage reduction number by a slash. Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, by magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment. If a dash follows the slash then the damage reduction is effective against any attack that does not ignore damage reduction.

Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.

Attacks that deal no damage because of the target’s damage reduction do not disrupt spells.

Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.

Sometimes damage reduction is instant healing. Sometimes damage reduction represents the creature’s tough hide or body,. In either case, characters can see that conventional attacks don’t work.

If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability.

Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage.

Some monsters are vulnerable to certain materials, such as alchemical silver, adamantine, or cold-forged iron. Attacks from weapons that are not made of the correct material have their damage reduced, even if the weapon has an enhancement bonus.

Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Some monsters are vulnerable to chaotic-, evil-, good-, or lawful-aligned weapons. When a cleric casts align weapon, affected weapons might gain one or more of these properties, and certain magic weapons have these properties as well. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that match the subtype(s) of the creature.

When a damage reduction entry has a dash (–) after the slash, no weapon negates the damage reduction.

A few creatures are harmed by more than one kind of weapon. A weapon of either type overcomes this damage reduction.

A few other creatures require combinations of different types of attacks to overcome their damage reduction. A weapon must be both types to overcome this damage reduction. A weapon that is only one type is still subject to damage reduction.
Also see Damage Reduction under Special Abilities.

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

3.5 closed that little loophole for DR, Only alignment, epic and magic get it.

DAMAGE REDUCTION

Some magic creatures have the supernatural ability to instantly heal damage from weapons or to ignore blows altogether as though they were invulnerable.

....................


Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability.

Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage.

Some monsters are vulnerable to certain materials, such as alchemical silver, adamantine, or cold-forged iron. Attacks from weapons that are not made of the correct material have their damage reduced, even if the weapon has an enhancement bonus.

Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Some monsters are vulnerable to chaotic-, evil-, good-, or lawful-aligned weapons. When a cleric casts align weapon, affected weapons might gain one or more of these properties, and certain magic weapons have these properties as well. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that match the subtype(s) of the creature.

When a damage reduction entry has a dash (–) after the slash, no weapon negates the damage reduction.

A few creatures are harmed by more than one kind of weapon. A weapon of either type overcomes this damage reduction.

A few other creatures require combinations of different types of attacks to overcome their damage reduction. A weapon must be both types to overcome this damage reduction. A weapon that is only one type is still subject to damage reduction.
Also see Damage Reduction under Special Abilities.

While I see a certain game-balancing logic in this approach by WotC, the thought of two werewolves slugging it out with tooth and fangs (according to this ) , almost incapable of harming each other makes me laugh. Likewise for two Faeries... Or the infamous iron golem boxing match.
Or, say two rakshasas - they might even be unable to trim or groom their fur ! The horror ! The humanity !

Honestly, another part of the rules where sticking to 3.0 rules may yield more reallistic and satisfying results.

 

[Ahrimon]

.......... Lotsa stuff ..........

While I can cirtainly agree that since it's not mentioned then it doesn't work. But I'm looking the other way. I think it can be implied that since virtually everything else works why shouldn't material? I'm sure many would consider this a house rule, or the domain of rule 0, but I see it as an implication of the core rules.

As uzagi_akimbo said, I can't see these creatures being almost completely unable to hurt each other.

Ahrimon

 

[Caliban]

While I can cirtainly agree that since it's not mentioned then it doesn't work. But I'm looking the other way. I think it can be implied that since virtually everything else works why shouldn't material? I'm sure many would consider this a house rule, or the domain of rule 0, but I see it as an implication of the core rules.

As uzagi_akimbo said, I can't see these creatures being almost completely unable to hurt each other.

Ahrimon

Have you seen how much damage werewolves can do? They just hurt each other a little less, but they are still very capable of hurting each other.

Besides, nothing stops them from carrying the appropriate weapon if they are going werewolve hunting.