Natural Attacks- Bite and Headbutt in the same round?

[Larkas]

See? Common sense dictates that you shouldn't be able to attack with a claw in the same hand you're holding a weapon, as do plenty of creatures' description. But there aren't any hard rule on the subject to fend off rules lawyers!

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Ever heard of the King of Smack?

Heard but never read up, very nice.
My official build is a Shifter PsyWar with a 2 level Warshaper dip. I cut out the Rapidstrike portion and keep it decently clean, and I'm still dealign decent damage with the original build.

But using an Elan for Rapidstrike.... That's classy right there.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

See? Common sense dictates that you shouldn't be able to attack with a claw in the same hand you're holding a weapon, as do plenty of creatures' description. But there aren't any hard rule on the subject to fend off rules lawyers!

However, it is appearing that you can get a full attack with a manufactured weapon in one hand, and as many other natural weapon attacks you've got available in addition.

 

[delericho]

... snippage...

If it's just about the part where attacking with a manufactured weapon and a clawed appendage wielding that weapon...

Yep, indeed. As I've noted up-thread, the sources you cite are correct, that a Monk can combine fully with natural attacks, and that you can add an unrelated natural attack to a 'normal' full attack. The only question remaining concerned the use of a weapon in a hand, and then also a claw (or arm ridges, or other natural weapon on that limb) in the same routine.

I actually can't find anything anywhere explicitly saying the claw attack can't be used in general. The Lycanthrope template does say in it that "A hybrid may attack with a weapon and a bite, or may attack with its natural weapons." but that only refers to the hybrid lycanthrope form and not every creature ever. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207742, http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=482.0, and other places do refer to not being able to use the clawed limb for a claw attack while wielding a weapon in the claw but I can't find the exact rules quote.

Well, I can find stuff saying you can't make a secondary claw attack after you've used the limb for a primary attack.

Given that the examples given point to the contrary, and also given the potential for abuse, I would require a player to find a rules quote that says he can do this. As no such example exists, I'd be banning that one. (In fact, even if such a rules quote existed, I'd still ban it - it's just that that would be explicitly a house rule, rather than merely a ruling.)

There's also a bit from the FAQ saying that a Lizardfolk can't make a claw attack along with, say, an attack with a longsword in the clawed hand.
What happens when creatures use their natural
weapons as secondary attacks along with a manufactured
weapon? For example, lizardfolk have two claws that also
serve as hands. What happens when they wield a onehanded
weapon in one hand and nothing in the other? Do
they lose both claw attacks in exchange for their attacks
with the weapon?

Wielding a manufactured weapon doesn’t prevent a
creature from using all its natural weaponry, provided that the
creature is using the full attack action and the additional natural
weapons are free.
The example lizardfolk can’t make a claw attack with the
“hand” that holds its weapon, although it does get to attack
with the weapon itself. But, if it’s using the full attack action, it
can use its other claw as a natural secondary attack (–5 to
attack rolls, half Strength bonus), and can also bite as a natural
secondary attack. In effect, the lizardfolk is using its normal
full attack routine with the manufactured weapon attack
substituted for one claw attack.

I'm always wary of relying on the FAQ, both because it doesn't actually have any standing as 'official' rules, and also because they have a bad record for getting it wrong.

However, in this case I agree - if you're using a manufactured weapon in one hand, you don't get to make claws attacks with that hand as well. However, you still get to make a claw attack with your other hand. (Assuming, of course, you have more than one claw attack to make!) And that applies whether the "weapon in one hand" is a light or one-handed weapon, or even if it is oversized and held using Monkey Grip or similar.

(Oh, and before the question gets asked - no, you can't attack with the weapon, then use a free action to drop the weapon and then attack with the claw! )