Necromancer Games NOT going with current GSL.

[xechnao]

The trailer for futurama's next movie doesn't say 'we're playing a roleplaying game', it says 'we're playing Dungeons and Dragons'.

Dungeons and Dragons is an interestingly funny and amusing name. But I do not see anything beyond this.

 

[dragonlordofpoondari]

This isn't really something worth worrying about too much since it already happens. Most freelancers take the work where they can find it, and a good number of writers who primarily write for Paizo have also worked for WotC and vice versa. Neither company has a shortage of writers in their stable, and since it's all contract work, neither company can control who else their freelancers work for.

Oh, I'm hip to that, baby. That conjecture I was forming was based on the following assumption: that WotC might, in the future, manage to quash Open Gaming (as Wyrmshadows outlines below, in admittedly clearer language than my own).

I think it is bad for D&D if Open Gaming dies. I think it would be a shame if the only way Clark (or you) could still publish content for D&D is under the WotC banner. I believe that this is what WotC wants. They seem to want to kill Open Gaming and, probably, have any writer still standing under their roof for good. That is what I'm worried about. Freelancing for WotC is not my concern. My fault for not expressing myself more clearly.

Not surprised at all.
WoTC is attempting to destroy Open Gaming by getting major 3pps to sign up onto the GSL denying themselves the opportunity to go back to the OGL effectively making them all pawns of WoTC's corporate decisions. Anyone hitching their wagon to that abomination is just setting themselves up for a world of hurt when WoTC decides to remove even the carrot that the GSL is leaving only the stick.

WoTC had to know the reaction that many would have to the GSL. I forsaw it as soon as I heard that it was going to be more restrictive. Certainly, WoTC foresaw that companies like Green Ronin and Paizo would balk at handing over unique/successful IP to WoTC control.

IMO WoTC doesn't really want 3pp support for D&D and the GSL was offered merely to prevent a storm of nerd rage and outright rebellion. The GSL is a PR move, nothing more. When 5e comes around even the GSL will be gone. Call me a cynic, but IMO every company that builds their IP around 4e will be doomed with the coming of 5e. Unlike those who stuck with the OGL to begin with, these folks will have to shelve their IP permanently or create entirely new game systems to support it.

 

[evilref]

1st of all I do not believe this 20% figure simply because Wotc has not been producing enough books for this year to make up for it. But even if a significant gap takes place watch publishers like Monte Cook and Paizo rush to fill this up ASAP.

Well firstly you're free to call me and him a liar all you like. You're wrong but you're free to do so.

Secondly you're assuming that customers would buy those books (and you know Monte doesn't publish anymore, right?)

When TSR crashed, rpg sales went down. A lot. While some people that bought D&D books undoubtedly went on to buy rpgs from other companies, a huge number of those did not. So many that stores went out of business or suffered significant financial hardship.

To assume that a.n.other game without the broad market appeal of D&D and the brand name recognition (which is the point Darrin and I have been making) would simply grab all those customers in a reasonable period of time is..well, I think it's more than overly optimistic.

But you're free to believe whatever you want.

 

[dragonlordofpoondari]

i don't think anyone really wants to see d&d fail unless that failure results in the transition to somebody who will treat it better.

qft.

 

[MrGrenadine]

So... for me, this is how it looks right now:
Keep in mind that I have ZERO interest in 3.x or Pathfinder or any other non-4E system.

COMPANIES THAT WILL GET MY MONEY IN THE NEAR FUTURE

Wizards of the Coast
Paizo
Necromancer Games
Green Ronin
Goodman Games
Adamant Entertainment

The three scratched out ones? They'll be added to my list as soon as they produce 4E material. I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat as me....

Since I don't currently run or play in any 4e games, my list looks thusly:

COMPANIES THAT WILL GET MY MONEY IN THE NEAR FUTURE

Wizards of the Coast
Paizo
Necromancer Games
Green Ronin
Goodman Games
Adamant Entertainment

I'm not sure that many people are in the same boat as me, and I don't really care.

I think its interesting that you will only play one version of one RPG--your time and money to do with as you will.

I just wish folks would stop declaring that their own behavior is indicative of some other large population. Without doing a lot of work, you have, at best, anecdotal evidence of a miniscule portion of the population of which you speak.

MrG

 

[xechnao]

Well firstly you're free to call me and him a liar all you like. You're wrong but you're free to do so.

Who are you? Who is "he"? Even so this is just one anecdotal example.

Secondly you're assuming that customers would buy those books (and you know Monte doesn't publish anymore, right?)

No I do not know anything. People can talk and say a lot of things but knowledge of matters is something beyond this.

When TSR crashed, rpg sales went down. A lot. While some people that bought D&D books undoubtedly went on to buy rpgs from other companies, a huge number of those did not. So many that stores went out of business or suffered significant financial hardship.

To assume that a.n.other game without the broad market appeal of D&D and the brand name recognition (which is the point Darrin and I have been making) would simply grab all those customers in a reasonable period of time is..well, I think it's more than overly optimistic.

But you're free to believe whatever you want.

Note that we are talking about D&D not Wotc. TSR obviously was not selling enough this is why it crashed. If it was not selling enough how did hobby shops suffered so much from its collapse allready?

 

[Raven Crowking]

It seems you completely missed the point of the OGL and d20. You equated third parties with competitors, but that's not necessarily the case. D&D was opened up to make it easier for third parties to act as partners, and increase the sales of WotC products; i.e., maximize profits by way of being friendly to 3pps. And for the most part, it worked. The point being, X is not a fixed amount.

Not at all.

WotC knew that its competitors would gain X-Y dollars, but knew believed that Y with no OGL would be smaller than X with the OGL. Hence, "You can only maximize profits and remain friendly to your competition if you believe that you cannot pick up any part of that X-Y that your competition is currently getting."

With the GSL, either (1) WotC believes that 3pp are no longer increasing the size of X, (2) WotC believes that 3pp are no longer increasing the size of Y, or (3) WotC didn't understand how 3pp would react to the GSL.

IMHO, of course.

RC

 

[evilref]

Who are you? Who is "he"? Even so this is just one anecdotal example.

Which, you know, would miss the part where I said I was using it as an example. If you think it's isolated, however, then you don't know the industry as far as bricks and mortar retail stores go.

Note that we are talking about D&D not Wotc. TSR obviously was not selling enough this is why it crashed. If it was not selling enough how did hobby shops suffered so much from its collapse allready?

Err, no, that's not why TSR crashed. If you're going to be making judgements about a subject it kind of helps if you know the subject you're speaking about.

However it's pretty evident that whatever I say you're just going to disagree with without citing any logical reasoning to support your position, so as I said, you can believe what you want. I'm done trying to educate you.

 

[xechnao]

Err, no, that's not why TSR crashed.

Why did TSR crash then? The first logic thought is that if TSR was selling as much as it needed to sustain its production and expenses and make a profit, it would not crash.
But what do I know anyway?

 

[dragonlordofpoondari]

Well firstly you're free to call me and him a liar all you like. You're wrong but you're free to do so
...
But you're free to believe whatever you want.
...
If you're going to be making judgements about a subject it kind of helps if you know the subject you're speaking about.
...
However it's pretty evident that whatever I say you're just going to disagree with without citing any logical reasoning to support your position, so as I said, you can believe what you want. I'm done trying to educate you.

Even though you're responding to xechnao here, I feel compelled to say something. Really evilref, it isn't necessary to make all of your points so personal and condescending. ENWorld has a reputation for being a lovely place to have a good discussion. Please try to be respectful of your fellow gamer.