Necromancer Games: Tough Adventures

[MonsterMash]

I've been a player in Wizards Amulet/Crucible of Freya and am currently playing in Lost City of Barakus with a different group and have bought several Necromancer modules to run in my own campaign and compared to some other publishers, yes the encounters contain plenty that could lead to a TPK if the party are foolish and assume that every encounter can be won by them just going head to head with everything they meet, instead of evading what you can't handle while planning ahead to try and think how to deal with it.

 

[Belen]

I'm currently going through The Crucible of Freya as a player (please! no spoilers!) and have found it to be challenging but loads of fun. Of course, it could be that the DM has heavily modified it to fit our party. The main bad guy we've fought so far mopped the floor with our dwarven cleric and gnome paladin, took a critical hit from my raging barbarian and then vanished before we could finish him off!

Our party of 5 second level characters finished that encounter with both the paladin and ranger below zero, the cleric and barbarian in the single digits, and our sorcerer with only one spell left. That seems just about right to me considering we went in with a half-baked plan and then got caught out in the open and surrounded by bad guys pretty quickly.

Perhaps I shouldn't be posting here, actually. It occurs to me that the DM could have home brewed the house-cleaning BBEG who disappears before we can loot his body! But my hat's off to somebody; I immediately made it my character's priority to find that guy and lay some more righteous smack down on him!

The encounter was not modified too much. I did change other aspects of Crucible though. Almost all the fluff was changed. Actually, you guys have been done with that mod since the Manticore encounter.

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

OTOH Necropolis turned out to be a horrible meatgrinder, I recommend it only for the setting, religion & monster info.

Well, blame Mr. Gygax for that. He wrote it--NG just updated it to 3e.

 

[PatrickLawinger]

Meatgrinders?

Okay, I'll try to make a few points here in the few minutes I have. Please keep in mind that as general points these are generalizations and don't apply to ALL modules produced by necro.

(1) Despite our "meatgrinder" reputation we do presume some "role-playing" by your PCs. Good god man, if it is a scary blob of poop that you can't hurt, RUN AWAY! Adventurers should want to survive to the next day, or at least want to plan tactically. They should be smart enough to run away. Yes, in video games you can reload a saved game, players need to understand that this is pen and paper gaming. Role-playing can mean negotiating or it can simply mean playing your character in a manner that hints of a small sense of self-preservation.

(2) Do NOT "clear the level." The video game mentality just does not work for most Necro modules. Two of the toughest encounters in Hall of the Rainbow Mage are NOT necessary for "finishing" the adventure and even if they PCs successfully defeat those NPCs/monsters they could severely weaken themselves for later battles. The smart thing to do in those cases is retreat and try a different approach.

(3) Good game design means that sometimes we presume access to certain spells and actually plan encounters forcing you to use them. A huge pool of acid might be almost impossible for a lvl 1 party to bypass, but a lvl 9 party should be able to get past it easily. If your party does not have single-class casters or is low on casters or magic (or hordes it) they could make things much more difficult on themselves than needed. This might mean that if a party is written for 4-6 7th level characters and you decide to start your group at lvl 5 because they have 8 players and some NPCs, well, you'll have problems.

(4) NPCs and higher level intelligent monsters are presumed to be played intelligently. They also run away to slay the PCs another day.

(5) It is a game. In order for a game to be fun there has to be some risk based on the rolling of the dice. There is a thrill in knowing the DM has missed with all of his NPCs 2 rounds in a row and is due for a crit or solid hit any time now ... and you only have 8 hp left. Yes, no matter how well prepared you are, bad rolls can doom a party, that is, for me, part of the thrill.

Basically, we presume PCs are willing to run away and plan thoroughly before returning (meanwhile NPCs are planning as well), we try to force you to use your resources in new ways, and encounters generally demand careful, intelligent, and organized play from a group of characters.

A few random, disorganized thoughts from,

Patrick (one of those other Necro guys)

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I have to chime in on the role-playing point. I forget which module (Rappan Athuk?) but there was one where the PCs could steal some robes and dress up like clerics of Orcus. That could make for some excellent deception and role-playing opportunities that could allow the PCs to get deep into the temple complexes.

The cool thing about the NG products is that a lot of the villains have a back story that can be used for role-playing purposes. If potential enemies are not always treated as hostiles to be slain on sight, a lot of encounters can be bypassed or mitigated. Not to mention the opportunity for side quests and other objectives.

 

[Jon Potter]

Actually, you guys have been done with that mod since the Manticore encounter.

Yes, but back when I made that original post (in November ) we were still in the thick of it, I imagine.

 

[Kalendraf]

I own many of the Necromancer Games modules, and have run a few of them (Hall of the Rainbow Mage, Siege of Durgam's Folly and Aberrations *All 3 of which are superb!*), though I dearly hope to run more of them at some point. I will concur that they are often difficult, but I would not say that they are out of line. IIRC, out of those 3 adventures, there were a couple PC deaths in Aberrations (one was due to DM rolling multiple critical hits in a single round, and the other was due to a character failing a save vs. slay living), but the party was always victorious.

Parties need to be cautious and use some intelligence, and these adventures merely reinforce that. As Patrick mentioned above, that clear-the-level mentality could be catastrophic in some of these adventures. Of course, the group I DM for fits squarely in that category :\ so in some cases, they wound up in more trouble than they needed to.

My only issue with some of the Necromancer stuff is related to the rewards. If you total up the loot in some of their adventures and compare it to what would be expected to follow the DMG's suggested wealth , you'll tend to find the rewards are quite high. If you're concerned with the wealth in your campaign, I recommend taking a close look at that treasure and modifying accordingly before blindly handing it out the PCs.

 

[Gothmog]

I love the NG modules, especially because of their difficulty. I will admit I'm a pretty bad module snob- the only companies I will consider modules from are Necromancer, Monkey God (now out of d20), and Green Ronin (mostly Freeport series). One thing that really annoys me now is "CR appropriate encounters" which most publishers follow religiously. I've always followed the idea that if something makes sense and should be in the world in a given area, it will be there, no matter if the PCs go there or not. NG modules tend to follow this same rule, and its up to the PCs, not the module designers, to determine how to hande the situation when it comes up. Running a NG module with a "kick in the door and clear the level" mentality will end up with a lot of deaths. Instead tactics, battle plans, and deception are needed to get around/win certain encounters, which I find makes for a much more enjoyable game. Kudos to NG!

 

[Belen]

Yes, but back when I made that original post (in November ) we were still in the thick of it, I imagine.

Yowsas! I had no idea the thread was that old.

 

[Belen]

Okay, I'll try to make a few points here in the few minutes I have. Please keep in mind that as general points these are generalizations and don't apply to ALL modules produced by necro.

(1) Despite our "meatgrinder" reputation we do presume some "role-playing" by your PCs. Good god man, if it is a scary blob of poop that you can't hurt, RUN AWAY! Adventurers should want to survive to the next day, or at least want to plan tactically. They should be smart enough to run away. Yes, in video games you can reload a saved game, players need to understand that this is pen and paper gaming. Role-playing can mean negotiating or it can simply mean playing your character in a manner that hints of a small sense of self-preservation.

(2) Do NOT "clear the level." The video game mentality just does not work for most Necro modules. Two of the toughest encounters in Hall of the Rainbow Mage are NOT necessary for "finishing" the adventure and even if they PCs successfully defeat those NPCs/monsters they could severely weaken themselves for later battles. The smart thing to do in those cases is retreat and try a different approach.

(3) Good game design means that sometimes we presume access to certain spells and actually plan encounters forcing you to use them. A huge pool of acid might be almost impossible for a lvl 1 party to bypass, but a lvl 9 party should be able to get past it easily. If your party does not have single-class casters or is low on casters or magic (or hordes it) they could make things much more difficult on themselves than needed. This might mean that if a party is written for 4-6 7th level characters and you decide to start your group at lvl 5 because they have 8 players and some NPCs, well, you'll have problems.

(4) NPCs and higher level intelligent monsters are presumed to be played intelligently. They also run away to slay the PCs another day.

(5) It is a game. In order for a game to be fun there has to be some risk based on the rolling of the dice. There is a thrill in knowing the DM has missed with all of his NPCs 2 rounds in a row and is due for a crit or solid hit any time now ... and you only have 8 hp left. Yes, no matter how well prepared you are, bad rolls can doom a party, that is, for me, part of the thrill.

Basically, we presume PCs are willing to run away and plan thoroughly before returning (meanwhile NPCs are planning as well), we try to force you to use your resources in new ways, and encounters generally demand careful, intelligent, and organized play from a group of characters.

A few random, disorganized thoughts from,

Patrick (one of those other Necro guys)

Dude, you rock. I like NG stuff precisely for those reasons. They are great adventures.