Necropolis suggested levels?

[StalkingBlue]

...I also wanted to ... just go away and leave the mess for the 'DM' to clean-up. Really should have done that...

Pretty much what we did - although we did discuss it with S'mon and he wanted out as badly as everybody else did, so the decision was unanimous.
We went back for a one-off rescue mission that was intended to be the end of Necropolis for us, and was taken on primarily to save one player's face - that mission was the one S'mon described earlier, which cost us two PCs in an inescapable encounter that really didn't make sense. The player in question has since left our group. *gnash*

 

[PatrickLawinger]

Hmm, interesting thread.

Starting levels that I would suggest depend on the number of PCs
8 PCs, 10th level is probably okay (at least at first)
6 PCs, 12th level
4 PCs, hmm, difficult, as people have said, EL ranges are going to be pretty variable. I'd probably go with 13-14th level for added spell choices.

This is a "gygaxian" adventure. The PCs (and players) are essentially expected to be very, very, very smart (and sometimes lucky). Gary doesn't have any problems putting "death traps" into modules (Tomb of Horrors anyone?). The adventure presumes a great deal of player knowledge and experience. It is also very, very difficult. No matter what happens, you will have PC deaths.

Parties that do well in this type of adventure make extensive use of divination magic and are willing to run like crazy when they have to.

Before NG did the 3.0 conversion, I went through this adventure as a player. A friend did his own conversion to ADnD and ran our group through it (7 players, I think a total of 9 PCs). It was very hard, and there were tons of deaths, but we all had an absolute blast.

I think the enjoyment of this adventure is going to rest with your playing style. I am sorry to hear that some people had a bad experience with this one. I would hope that, if nothing else, the vast number of monsters and setting information provided could be of significant use.
Patrick

 

[StalkingBlue]

....Parties that do well in this type of adventure make extensive use of divination magic and are willing to run like crazy when they have to. ....

Our party uses both divinations and tactical withdrawal - by your standards we probably did well. And you're absolutely right, it's a matter of play style. If you happen to enjoy Gygax's style, you might be ok. (Alhtough additional problems might have been caused by the 3.0 conversion, not sure.)

The main problem for us was, we didn't have fun. Not so much because of difficulty but because we like our scenarios to make sense to us; and Necropolis doesn't. After playing through it for several sessions we just couldn't be bothered to plod on through it, and gladly returned to the fascinations and horrors of S'mon's normal DMing style.
We lost another handful of PCs and cohorts to several attempts to bring down a long-standing BBEG over the next couple of sessions or so - which all of us preferred a lot over desert-adventuring Gygaxian style.

 

[Thanee]

The adventure presumes a great deal of player knowledge and experience.

Well, you need to know exactly what you have to do at some occasions, which is impossible, even with divination magic, unless you know the module and metagame accordingly.

I prefer adventures where you actually get useful hints.

Bye
Thanee

 

[S'mon]

The main problem for us was, we didn't have fun. Not so much because of difficulty but because we like our scenarios to make sense to us; and Necropolis doesn't. After playing through it for several sessions we just couldn't be bothered to plod on through it, and gladly returned to the fascinations and horrors of S'mon's normal DMing style.
We lost another handful of PCs and cohorts to several attempts to bring down a long-standing BBEG over the next couple of sessions or so - which all of us preferred a lot over desert-adventuring Gygaxian style.

Although I should point out that that CR21 BBEG was the Cambion Harecules, from Lost City of Gaxmoor - by _Luke & Ernie Gygax_ (w David Moore).

I loved Lost City of Gaxmoor, inc the additions by EGG. Necropolis just wasn't for us, though - and I do think the conversion to 3e resulted in wildly variable ELs and compounded the scenario's inherent problems.

The monsters, gods etc sections at the back seem fine - I've used several of the monsters and enjoyed them greatly. This section is a big chunk of the book, so Necropolis certainly isn't worthless, but trying to run it did severe damage to my campaign and I would be reluctant in future to buy Necromancer or Gary Gygax scenarios, esp mega-scenarios, unless I could check them out thoroughly first.

 

[S'mon]

Well, you need to know exactly what you have to do at some occasions, which is impossible, even with divination magic, unless you know the module and metagame accordingly.

I prefer adventures where you actually get useful hints.

Bye
Thanee

This was very much my feeling - GMing it, I had a queasy feeling knowing there was no way the PCs could know what they were supposed to do, so no way they could win without cheating. Yuck.

 

[Thanee]

I am sorry to hear that some people had a bad experience with this one.

Well, I for one enjoyed most of the adventure (except for Rahotep's most ridiculous grave part). I'm pretty sure, that our DM altered quite a bit, tho.

Only, in the end, there still was no real sense in the whole thing.

Bye
Thanee

 

[mythusmage]

This was very much my feeling - GMing it, I had a queasy feeling knowing there was no way the PCs could know what they were supposed to do, so no way they could win without cheating. Yuck.

The proper term is, "creativity". You're not cheating, you're being creative.

Now, one thing both versions recommend is having 'side treks' where the party could find things to help with the main adventure. Necropolis is not designed to be played straight through, until you get to Rahotep's digs. Then it becomes a win or die affair.

Besides which, Necropolis requires thorough study on the part of the GM. No skimming the pages and filling the blank spots in as you go. You need to know it better than you know your neighborhood.

Again, knowing old style action-adventure flicks and pulp magazine stories, their tropes and memes, helps a lot.

One more thing, do your utmost to disabuse your players of the pernicious notion that they are the heroes. They're not. In Necropolis they have no authorial immunity, they are nothing more than regular folks (with extraordinary abilities) trying to get a prize that'll make them famous for generations and maybe even put them in a higher socio-economic class.

Approach it as something new in the world of RPGs and you should do a lot better.

BTW, compared to the gator the carp is a wimp.

 

[Thanee]

Pretty much what we did ...

You are wiser than us...

Bye
Thanee

 

[jollyninja]

so, we had been running around in kemmit since level 1 with the same core of characters, getting into the social scene, forging relationships with the temples. you know, the standard adventurer stuff. bam, we hit level 12. we start the adventure "necropolis". 5 weeks later the campaign was done. we had a near tpk and the players revolted only one original character was left, i had rolled up 4 new level 13-15 characters in 3 weeks and was done. i will never have anything to do with this adventure again, ever. i had two characters die in the same room in completely different ways (underworld, with the paintings) two sessions apart. advice to players, arcane sight, permanent (if the dm had not disallowed it, we might have lived). kill everything and everyone. search every three seconds even if the dm is screaming at you to stop giving him search results or he will remove your tongue with a spatula. in short, it was without a doubt, in my eight years of gaming, the least enjoyable d&d experience of my life and that is despite the fact that i think the dm is a good one (he was just running a garbage adventure) and i like the group of players. 1st edition must really have sucked if that is what it "felt" like.