Need advice for tweaking an overshadowed rogue

[rom90125]

My group of 14th level characters is comprised of the following:

elf wizard
dwarf cleric/ranger
half-orc fighter
elf necromancer/undead hunter (using classes from College of Necromancy book)
halfling rogue.

The problem is this: the elf wizard casts Arcane Eye and Arcane Sight to scout ahead, thus making the rogue's scouting/trapfinding abilities a bit redundant. The rogue is still good at looking for non-magic traps, but, as the party is getting to higher levels, all players agree it is better to let the wizard scan for magical traps, thus negating some of the rogue's class abilities.

Now the player running the rogue wants to tweak her character (by adding a PrC) that gives her better melee.

I'm looking for your suggestions. Please include the name of the source material, if possible, so I know what to look for.

Thanks.

 

[Darklone]

Halfling rogue. Melee. Hmm. Get fighter levels, Power Attack and give him a spiked chain. Due to his to hit bonuses, he'll be able to make more damage than a human... and the reach will help him to survive.

 

[Slaved]

Do you allow Tome of Battle?

Adding in a few levels from that here and there along with some of the feats might be just what this rogue needs.

I would suggest the retraining rules from Players Handbook 2. A bit of time, a bit of money, and suddenly he can be adding his dexterity to attack and damage while having concealment constantly and the ability to step through shadows. Or a number of other options, it is a fun book.

Swordsage would likely be the class he would want to look at.

 

[Solarious]

Well, you can always use the retraining rules and become a Rogue4/Swashbuckler10 using the feat Daring Outlaw from the Complete Scoundrel. Sacrifices skill points and special abilties for a Swashbuckler's BAB, HP, and combat effectiveness. Daring Outlaw allows both Rogue and Swashbuckler levels to stack for Dodge, Grace (both negilgible), and most importantly, Sneak Attack. It's a powerful option, but Swashbucklers aren't terribly effective to begin with anyways.

Effectively, you gain 3 points of BAB, a good Fort save, an average of 20 hp, free weapon finesse (sort of paying off the Daring Outlaw investment), Int to damage, and more AC. It only gets better from there, plus you can still progress with acrobatic and social skills. Oh, and the all important Listen/Spot skills. Roguey will still be relatively competent as a trap monkey, perhaps will skill boosters and the caution to take 20, but get a large boost to melee capabilities.

If you take this route, it's best to go Swashbuckler16/Rogue4, for 19 BAB dual-weilding 10d6 sneak-attack goodness. Consider feats such as Vexing/Adaptable Flanker and Telling Blow, both from the PHBII.

 

[Gort]

Hmm, to be quite honest, I'm really surprised that a halfling rogue would be lacking in melee power at level 14 - mine is a killing machine! Does he use two-weapon fighting? Four attacks doing 7D6 damage each is pretty horrific. Not many characters can do 28D6 damage a round at level 14. Plus, next level, it goes up to six attacks, for 42D6 damage a round.

If you wanted to buff that up some more, check out the Slayer of Domiel class from the Book of Exalted Deeds. Powers such as being able to do D8s for sneak attack against evil opponents are pretty handy.

 

[Tessarael]

The problem is this: the elf wizard casts Arcane Eye and Arcane Sight to scout ahead, thus making the rogue's scouting/trapfinding abilities a bit redundant. The rogue is still good at looking for non-magic traps, but, as the party is getting to higher levels, all players agree it is better to let the wizard scan for magical traps, thus negating some of the rogue's class abilities.

Arcane Sight doesn't really help scouting, except for detecting magical stuff within 120'. In addition, the caster's eyes glow blue, so enemies will detect the caster.

Arcane Eye is an invisible sensor. If it is stationary, the Spot check to notice it is DC 40 - maybe better than the Hide check of a Rogue who hasn't maxed out Hide and isn't using magic items that give a bonus to Hide. However, if the sensor is moving, the Spot check is only DC 20. The Rogue can probably hide much better than that, so the Rogue is not redundant for scouting.

I have a high level Rogue/Diviner/Arcane Trickster and very seldom cast Arcane Eye, because he is better at scouting than his spells are.

 

[newgrace]

How could a rouge be unhappy? Specially a halfling. Sounds to me hes just doesnt know what it means to be a rogue. But we have all been there when your just not happy with how a character is panning out, specially if he is being replaced by the rest of the party. If you created moments where the party needed to split (or would benefit from splitting) then all of a sudden he is a scout again, as the wizard cant go both ways. Setup fun situations for stealth and slight of hand...like stealing a wizards spell book before the party attacks him the next day...or while the party is fighting, steal the arrows from an archers quiver.

He can be stealing keys to locked doors, floor plans of buildings, all kinds of neat little things that can benefit the group. The hardest part of a rogue is knowing what to do if you get caught, since your most likely to be alone or seperated. If the rogue is only going to hang with the group, its almost a waste to be halfling (almost.)

Makes me sad to see a non stealth rogue, but with a group, fighting does make sense. Next the fighter in the party will want to become a sorcerer... Tome of Battles does have some neat abilities, as does Magic of Incarnum (its fighter friendly since all its abilities are con based). Id recommend he start looking at some of the prestige classes. A horizon walker with unlimited Dimension Door is pretty nifty, and the first few lvls can give better hide/move silently/spot/listen ranks. While Shadow Dancer isnt my favorite, a hide in plain sight with dimension door abilities is nice.

In Complete Scoundral (and now dungeonscape) they have trap based classes with the rules on booby traps / combat traps. Its a nice way to become "effective" without having to become a fighter. And it provides a neat change to the game when you start planning traps and using the rogues stealth to sabotage.

 

[nittanytbone]

We need more information about the rogue's current feats/maxed skills/ability scores as well as the books allowed to give good advice about the situation.

Also, what are the other character's melee/combat styles? Are they archers, reach weapon AoO battlefield controllers, power attack THF beasts, etc?

One niche role that immediately jumps to mind is that of "face." None of the other characters seem to be good candidates for social skills, but the halfling rogue could have diplomacy/bluff/sense motive at high levels.

 

[mvincent]

the player running the rogue wants to tweak her character (by adding a PrC) that gives her better melee.

ASsuming sneak attacking is possible, a straight rogue can already be effective in combat. Some tips:
1) Use TWF'ing for extra sneak damage
2) Use rapid shot for another additional attack
3) Use a ring of blinking to sneak attack more easily
4) Alternately, an intelligent ring of invisibility can use it's action to re-activate itself just after she attacks.
5) Use alchemist fire or acid vials for sneak attacking against the targets touch AC

 

[gavagai]

Now the player running the rogue wants to tweak her character (by adding a PrC) that gives her better melee.

I'm looking for your suggestions. Please include the name of the source material, if possible, so I know what to look for.

Thanks.

I am so much with you on this one. My PCs are 16th level, and include a Halfling Rogue 14 / Ranger 2. The charactrer really is a dead horse, and I dont know how to help him out. TWF, major sneak damage and a DM who really tries to make him shine ... I just dont know what to do... In many situations, sneak does not apply, the character has already been killed once or twice by moving too much to the front, its seldom he gets a full attack sneak combo, and there are quiet a few CR 15 critters immune to critical hits.