Need Advice with DMing an Evilesque party

[clark411]

As a DM, how do you (or a hypothetical how Would you) handle evil PCs? Beyond putting a "no evil" stamp on the campaign that is... I'm looking for advice on making plots and stories and issues for evil characters, and just dealing in general with characters who have little problem dealing with moral quandries (I do what is in my best interests, always.), or cutting down people at a whim, etc.

A little background:
About a month ago I started up a homebrew campaign and am now facing a party of individuals with low morals and individuals who basically look the other way when the PCs with low morals engage in their nasties.

In terms of actual events of butchery and nastiness there is little, but looking at the development of the player characters I can see two gearing up for it (one a necromancer who won't think twice when it comes to slipping into evil in exchange for power, and the other an evil fighter/rogue/ranger [taken for favored enemy "my race"] with intentions of taking assassin for profit and generally killing people he doesn't like as a character habit).

The remainder of the party is a goodly cleric of Pelor (who has not yet objected to anything overly evil or sketchy.. instead focusing on performing good acts himself), a good ranger (who has seemed to disagree with the actions of the party), and a good bard (who has missed some of the action and hence, hasn't had the chance to state any opinions).

 

[Wippit Guud]

Catch 22 with the cleric of Pelor... should be against anything evil, but Pelor is a notorious pacifist

 

[Leopold]

Let's be honest here. 1/3 of your party is ready for evilness, the other 2/3 have no intention and since they are good prolly never will go evil so why push it? The only thing that you can/will do if you push the evil envelope will be to isolate the 2 players and if they really turn eveil will attack the party or vice versa and then they will be off an on their own.

Now it depends on the debauchery that may occur, heck you could have the necro raising rats and such and just being a playful evil, but as soon as he starts raising dead to work for him the cleric of pelor WILL have a problem (that is if the cleric's player is played right). The rogue murderer will prolly grate on the bard and rangers edge as well as get stern beat down by the cleric if he goes off the deep end.

Overall, evil is not stupid, they can and will work to further their own ends but in the longterm with a good cleric in the party he really sets the moral tone for the game unless someone else is going to step upto the plate to do so. If he does not he might as well worship Nerull then if they start butchering villagers and eating babies and such.

 

[clark411]

Be that as it may, I was still hoping for advice on running things that would be interesting for an evil PC or two. It's only fair that if I'm presenting opportunities for good PCs to show their goodness or be tempted by the evil people, that I should present evil PCs with moments to shine and chances for redemption etc.

What I was hoping for, was advice on getting more out of the characters than "I'm evil, I don't like you, I roll to hit you and my sneak attack goes off. Huzzah." Eventually, they Will become bored with it even if it's amusing for a few sessions.

I don't consider their alignments to be a problem... The only problems I see really are the fact that they've opted to be evil in a campaign setting where the mounting heavens are coterminous to the Prime (I've made very clear that there is serious danger [and great potential for power] in embracing evil where Devas and Solars fly overhead) , and the fact that long term inaction or ineffective grumblings on the part of the Good pcs will slide them out of Good, or even push them into Evil in the long run should they actively protect their friends from the reprocussions of evil actions.

 

[SweeneyTodd]

you're screwed

I was hoping it was an all-evil party, because then you'd have a fair number of options.

Mixed good and evil, though? Especially a proto-necromancer hanging out with a cleric of The Light?

There are levels of evil, of course, and "I'm just out for myself" isn't all that bad, all things considered. If the party is in a situation where cooperation will lead to large rewards for all involved, though, the two evils would be stupid to not go along with it, even 'toning down' their act and being sneakier to easy things along.

 

[Voadam]

Be that as it may, I was still hoping for advice on running things that would be interesting for an evil PC or two. It's only fair that if I'm presenting opportunities for good PCs to show their goodness or be tempted by the evil people, that I should present evil PCs with moments to shine and chances for redemption etc.

What I was hoping for, was advice on getting more out of the characters than "I'm evil, I don't like you, I roll to hit you and my sneak attack goes off. Huzzah." Eventually, they Will become bored with it even if it's amusing for a few sessions.

I don't consider their alignments to be a problem... The only problems I see really are the fact that they've opted to be evil in a campaign setting where the mounting heavens are coterminous to the Prime (I've made very clear that there is serious danger [and great potential for power] in embracing evil where Devas and Solars fly overhead) , and the fact that long term inaction or ineffective grumblings on the part of the Good pcs will slide them out of Good, or even push them into Evil in the long run should they actively protect their friends from the reprocussions of evil actions.

Generally evil is greedy and powerhungry.

If you want to work with them on that then have a few items of evil power the evil characters can latch onto or an opportunity for some pacts with evil powers.

I played a good character in a predominantly evil group and it was intense roleplaying with a lot of bluffing and intimidation (not the skills but character interaction) as a mercenary type character I got the group to fight other evil groups for profit and it worked out well.

In a mixed group watch the balance of power as interparty conflicts can erupt easily and lead to bloodshed more quickly if there is a huge disagreement.

I run an all evil group and the motivations are generally the same as most adventurers, kill things and take their stuff. They have enemies who are usually bad guys but also the occasional good guy and the same goes for allies.

They just are not motivated by rescuing nobodies or freeing slaves as most good characters are.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Your group make-up is going to cause you all sort of problems.

I define evil in my games and point out that those that perform evil acts will be hunted down and killed as such. They will be friendless, and what they do to others shall be done to them in the end, for good always wins! (Always)

It is easy to be evil, it is a bit harder to be a powerful evil or a hidden evil and most live short lifes because that is the way evil works.

 

[LuYangShih]

With the current party makeup, giving the evil characters chance to excel in evil acts will rip the party apart. As soon as the good characters find out about the evil characters actions, they will end up throwing them out of the party, or fighting them. Unless your other three players choose to follow the path of evil (unlikely from the basic overview you have given), allowing the evil characters opportunities to pursue the true nature of their alignments will lead to intra party conflict that cannot be mended.


Now, this could be alright, if all your players are mature and can keep in game conflict in game, but in my experience many people take such conflicts very personally, and it can lead to grudge matches between players for the rest of the campaign, or even beyond. If you think that might happen, I advise you not to allow the conflict to occur by limiting the evil characters actions, or asking them to create new characters. Conversely, you could ask the players playing the good characters to create new characters, if you really want an evil campaign.

On the other hand, if your group can handle the inter party conflict without it spilling out of the game, it can be a great roleplaying opportunity for all involved. If you want to give the Assassin and Necromancer opportunities to do evil, play to their specialities. The Assassin is obvious, he will have to murder an innocent person simply to gain entrance into the Assassins Guild, and I am sure they will have plenty of jobs for him afterwards. Go ahead and intertwine that with the main missions the PCs are on. The Lord who summons the PCs to rescue his kidnapped daughter may be marked for death, and the Assassin has to figure out how to off him without getting caught, either by the authorities or his fellow party members.

Assassination jobs should be the primary source of evil for that character. Just vary the target and the adventures for that character can become very complex. The above example could include gathering information about the Lords habits, through various methods, (interrogation, seduction, simple spying) contacting the Lords enemies to aid in the Assassination attempt (diplomacy, intrigue, making contact with new enemies or friends), luring him out into the forest on a hunting trip to arrange an "accident" (more diplomacy, befriending the Lord, setting up traps), and so on. Just remember the Assassin needs to maintain his anoymity at all times, or he is going down. Note, however, that with a Cleric Of Pelor in the party (Speak With Dead, Commune, Divination, etc.) it is not going to be easy. Acquiring magical items to prevent his detection by such spells will be neccessary, and the Lord had better not know who killed him if the body is still around.

Disposing of the bodies is almost always going to be a neccessity in any event, though, thanks to Raise Dead. Personally, I always gave the Assassins Death Attack the ability to permanently kill a target (making it the truly penultimate Assassin class), but I will assume you do not that. At later levels, the problem becomes even greater. I would suggest getting scrolls of Trap The Soul and a high Use Magic Device skill against that day. That is just for higher level campaigns, though, and who knows if this will last that long.


As for the Necromancer, use arcane knowledge as temptation. Have him find a book listing terrible, dark rituals, that grant great power. After all, if he can gain power just by killing a few worthless peasants, why shouldn't he? The BOVD has a few feats and other rituals you could use for this purpose. You could also have him contacted by a demonic entity who offers him great power, in exchange for worship. Depending on the entity, he could recieve various quests to further his infernal lords desires. A great deal of Ta'narri (sp?) and Baatezu Lords exist to use, and just pick one that you think the Necromancer would like to serve.

Those are just a few ideas, and perhaps that will gave you a basic overview of how you want to proceed with this. Personally, I think that evil PCs are not worth running, and I vastly prefer running a game for heroes, not villians. I just do not think you can have as much fun running an evil game. Still, that is me, and perhaps you disagree. Good luck with this, and beware, it has a great potential to blow up in your face, given the party makeup.

 

[bill2825]

LuYangShih has some great suggestions. I would add a couple to those that you may or may not have thought of.

One suggestion is that the evil characters be provided the chance to gain a "Mentor". Evil need not be overbearing and obvious. I typically hold the idea that the most dangerous evil is the insidious type. Perhaps this mentor would reward the evil characters for manipulation of the party toward evil ends in the name of good. If I were evil, what better move could I make than to manipulate the "Good Heroes" into performing my evil acts for me? Further, what if their "Good Acts" swayed the balance and caused a backlash toward evil to offset them?

My thoughts would be, from the little information you provided, that perhaps seeding the "Heroes" party with some evil would be a long term plan for a great evil to bring darkness to your world that seems highly influenced on the celestial (good) side.

Along those same lines, but different. Due to the propensity toward good in your world (Solars flying overhead), the evil characters could be the balancing factor in the world. If the players enjoy being the underdog, they may have tied themselves to the party to "disguise" their taint.


Just a couple thoughts.

 

[the Jester]

Oooh, I love mixed-alignment groups! The players have to be able to deal with intraparty conflict, but if you throw out sorta convergent motives for three different pcs to be on the adventure, the rest will usually go along.

My current, nigh-epic, party runs the alignment gamut from CG to LE. I try to motivate them by making them have lots of mutual interests (of course, their mutual enemies also help get them to work together as well...)