Need clarification on "No Retailer Links" rule

[smokewolf]

I will preface this by saying that I am a publisher and use both RPGNOW and DTRPG. While this is not an attack or anything, I do want to voice my opinion (as small as it is).

I am not sure what to make of this new policy. I see both GMS and Steve's point of views. ENWORLD has been a huge source of customers for RPGNOW and others and that addition hoops will cause a reduction in sales.

I also see the other side, ENWORLD is not here to serve our needs. It is not suppose to drive sales for us. And now that it is preparing to enter the PDF market it would like to generate money for itself instead of others.


My real concern though is my impression of ENWORLD from this point forward. Please take this as an honest assessment and not simply a bitch because I am a vendor.

Before I felt that ENWORLD was a good source of unbiased information. I felt that information I received here was solid and that it was a news site. I check ENWORLD 5-10x a day just to keep up with the industry and consumer sentiment. However, it seems that recently steps have been taken to get information in a form that ENWORLD wants it in rather than in an unbiased honest form.

Press Releases are NEWS. Regardless of what they say, they are reporting on some facet of the industry that some people want to here about. Placing restrictions on what can go into a PR is a form of censorship. Maybe not in the constitutional way, but at least in a restriction of what information is to be and what isn't to be passed to the average reader.

At this point, I feel I am forced now to read ENWORLD with a grain of salt more so than I did before. Am I getting an honest reflection of the news or am I getting the news as ENWORLD wants me to see. Tie that into the fact that not only are we talking about generating money from store sales, I am sure that ENPub will be part of the new store. Thus blurring the line between commerce and news even more.

Outside of this market, most professionals would tell you news and commerce are not a good mix, especially when they are both in the same area. Imagine if MSNBC only reported about Computer News. There would be 20 negative linux stories to each negative MS story (or at least that is the justification behind the industry keeping the mix from happening).

I respect that decisions need to be made and sometimes a shift in direction happens. However, as both a publisher and a gamer, I am not sure that ENWORLD is going to be the place for me to get the news and information I can trust. There are definitely other sites without such an appearant conflict of interest and maybe those will become more important to me than ENWORLD.



I hope this makes sense and is accepted in the honest way I am trying to present it.

 

[GMSkarka]

I wasn't referring to just this thread, Gareth and you know it. And you do know how people find your manner, so please don't even try to play innocent. Do you know how often I'm asked to ban you? Please change your manner.

I'm not playing innocent, Morrus. My point is that, despite the convenient excuse of my "manner", I have not been antagonistic on this issue, but you're very quick to treat me as such.

Thus I couldn't even imagine you wanting to sign up. If that's not the impression you intended to convey, then I apologise for the mistake, but it sure as hell comes across like that.

Nobody who runs a business makes a decision like that without seeing the offer on the table.

Apparently, though, you've decided to not even bother to show me the offer, despite our market position, which I suspect has more to do with your opinion of me than it does with any impression I'm conveying.

Your choice, naturally. It wouldn't be the first one that I've found puzzling.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

Which wasn't a problem when RPGNow split all it's categories into two sites...

There's still an extra step involved, so it's almost assured that some sales have been lost despite sales being unified on the back end. It's an undeniable fact of selling on line that more clicks to purchase = decreased sale probability. Even losing just a few sales is something a typical PDF's lifespan cannot afford to lose. RPGnow also has the benefit of already being the most likely place PDF customers end up at, anyway, while also offering the wides selection so customers will be more inclined to put up with it because so much stuff there isn't found elsewhere, or available with similarly desired products to such an extent--customers are more likley to be inconvenienced by the place offering them the most than they are to take the same hassle by a store that doesn't do as much for them.

 

[Morrus]

Apparently, though, you've decided to not even bother to show me the offer, despite our market position, which I suspect has more to do with your opinion of me than it does with any impression I'm conveying.

You work for RPGNow, Gareth. It's that simple. I'm up front with James, but I haven't handed him the URL (although I'd be amazed if he didn't have it).

 

[GMSkarka]

You work for RPGNow, Gareth. It's that simple. I'm up front with James, but I haven't handed him the URL (although I'd be amazed if he didn't have it).

Now, see --- That's a perfectly legitimate reason, which has nothing to do with "impressions" or "manner". You could have just said that.....

Can I assume that once it's gone live, and secrecy is no longer required, that Adamant will be approached?

 

[Roudi]

They do, however, allow those outside companies the chance to purchase the product inside. They also allow outside promotions to be represented within (say, a McDonalds in an ice rink still selling cups with Monopoly pieces.) This brings me back to my vendor account concept.

I actually do like your vendor account concept. It would be a bit of a challenge to implement, but I do think it would rectify the issue of publishers using ENWorld to promote their off-site products while giving little back to ENWorld. I urge Morrus to consider this option for the future.

I'll stop my "continual antagonism" when you stop engaging in behavior which is a direct attack on my livelihood.

You're saying that by not being able to direct-link your press releases to where your products are sold, your livelihood is threatened? Think about that relationship for a second. You utilize a FREE web forum to advertise your products in a manner convenient to yourself, and possibly reap sales from it. Even counting the referral bonuses, revenue from banner ad space you might have bought, and donations during the ENWorld Server Drive, I would argue that ENWorld isn't getting their fair share for the promotion they are allowing you to make. As an aside, ad impressions are a transaction unto themselves; you pay for those ads and those ads alone, and that revenue doesn't much justify making use of the free venue.

The relationship between advertiser and venue ought to be symbiotic; both benefit financially from the relationship. However, if your livelihood is so dependent on the free PR releases you make at ENWorld, and you haven't made a significant contribution back to ENWorld, then the relationship between you two is more like that of a host and a leech. Morrus had quite the rant on this subject a while back, and while I did disagree with some of the things he said, he was correct to say that some publishers rely heavily on the free promotion they get through ENWorld without contributing back.

 

[Peterson]

What about ENWorld's Ad Space? Is that going away, or are we allowed to reference other vendors in that?

Also, I find Heap's question very valid and would like some input on that if possible.

HeapThaumaturgist: As a freelance author who's interested in letting other people know what he's worked on, and not, particularly, in promoting a particular publisher's site (I.E. I might have half a dozen products I'VE WRITTEN with half a dozen publishers) ... is it still against board rules to post links to my particular products....

 

[Morrus]

Now, see --- That's a perfectly legitimate reason, which has nothing to do with "impressions" or "manner". You could have just said that.....

The issue wasn't raised. We were talkng about something else entirely when I mentioned your manner. The concept of Adamant signing up wasn't even being discussed.

Can I assume that once it's gone live, and secrecy is no longer required, that Adamant will be approached?

It'll all be automated - and you and anyone else will be welcome to check it out and sign up if you like what you see. I'm approaching the whole thing in a very different way to existing retailers (well, I like to think I am, at least). Ideas have come from all sorts of places, not RPGNow and DTRPG (believe it or not, the biggest inspiration is i-Tunes....).

 

[GlassJaw]

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not a publisher at all - just a fan.

To me, the publishers that post on ENWorld and make themselves available to the fans make ENWorld the great place that it is. Alienating the publishers seems counter-productive in my opinion. Worst case scenario, if a few publishers are turned off by this new development and take their business elsewhere, I think ENWorld will have lost out. I can't begin to think of how this may stunt the growth of the burgeoning ENnies. :\

However, as both a publisher and a gamer, I am not sure that ENWORLD is going to be the place for me to get the news and information I can trust. There are definitely other sites without such an appearant conflict of interest and maybe those will become more important to me than ENWORLD.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Knowing that ENWorld is now filtered doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Ghostwind]

Your EN World press release can contain this simple sentence which speaks worlds to anyone who would be reading it here.

"Product X is available from major online pdf retailers. For a detailed listing, please click here."

I fail to see why mountains are being created about this. Just as many publishers had to re-adjust their maketing strategies when RPGNow got split into two sites, this new rule just makes you make another adjustment.

Honestly, some of you are sounding like Chicken Little. EN Worlders are smart enough to read between the lines and follow the arrows to your product if they are truly interested in it. Give them some credit...