Need Help - Have you seen this Feat?

[sithramir]

Well i've read through pretty much every book that has feats in it and never encountered such a powerful feat. Nor would any smart DM let it into his game. Thats why its epic. Just because they only would choose one metamagic feat to do it is still insanely powerful. How many metamagics will that character have anyways? SO adjusting one is enough.

I could only imagine my 3rd level wizard with empower spell and that feat empowering magic missiles already. If you find it dude you just make sure to tell me so I can write the idiots who let that out. (And make sure every one of my spellcasters ALWAYS has it).

 

[mikebr99]

Thanks for the help Mike, but that's still not it... (just checked)

The Incantatrix ability "Improved Metamagic", applies to all their Metamagic feats and can reduce the increase to +0 levels.

This has been changed... the ability can't lower the cost below +1.


Mike

 

[the Jester]

Dunno where you saw it, but it certainly wouldn't make it as a non-Epic feat in my campaign. Way overboard. Way.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Agreed that all metamagic feats would be too powerful.
However, also agreed that just ONE is still too powerful.

I would possibly allow it to affect all metamagic feats you use with just one spell you choose when you receive the feat. Like choose magic missile, and an empowered version would only be level 2, a maximised version only level 3 etc...

 

[Wraithwin]

To those who think it'd be too powerful...
If you consider what makes epic feats, then this feat is fine.
Epic feats are just amplified versions of existing feats, basically.
This Feat) Reduce a specific metamagic by 1 (minimum +1)
Epic Feat) Reduce all metamagics by 1 (minimum +1)
Sure, you could empower Magic Missles as a 2nd. Go for it.
Just remember, that's 2 feats to do that.
One to get the Empower feat, one to make it 2nd instead of 3rd.
If you're not human, that's your first 2 feats right there.

Jester, after taking in the above, why would you consider it to be way overboard? Personally, I see it as no worse than say Pint Blank Shot - Rapid Shot. It's all perspective though... you need another feat for this feat to effect. And how many people are going to take Empower at 1st level when they can't use it?

Also I apologize. Something else I forgot to mention about it, is that the pre-requisite is that you know at least 2 different Metamagic feats.

sircaren, forgive me for my ignorance, but what does FRCS stand for?

(sorry if I'm dragging this out all, but it's something fairly vital to me)

 

[the Jester]

The thing about metamagic feats is that the balance for the power-up is the level increase. If you take this feat for, say, maximize spell (decreases to a +2 increase), you get a 60-hp fireball every time as a 5th level spell (assuming you're 10th level). Compare this to casting a 10d6 cone of cold- average of 35 hp. Boom! The maximized fireball wins out. A fireball max'ed as a 6th level spell (60 hp) vs. an 11th-level caster using disintegrate is a whole different story- that's 22d6 (in 3.5), or an average of 77 hp. Maximize is very useful because of its diversity (can be applied to any spell with variables) and reliability, so I think it retains a huge amount of usefulness. If it makes maximized spells hands-down better than non-metamagicked spells of the level they become, I think it breaks out of the 'useful and balanced' category and into the 'whoa! gotta have that!' category.

Keep in mind, too, that even with two other metamagic feats as a prereq, a human wizard or sorcerer could have it as soon as 3rd level. So you could be empowering magic missiles at third level (two missiles for 6-15 points of never-miss, no save force damage compared to Melf's acid arrow, which has a very real chance of missing, and there are plenty of creatures with acid immunity or resistance, it mightn't effect incorporeal creatures, etc.)

Basically, I just think it's too much. Maybe if it had heavy prereqs it'd be okay- like 18 ranks of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana), plus Heighten Spell, the feat you want to apply it to, Spell Penetration, Skill Focus (spellcraft), and a few others- but then you may as well wait a couple of levels and take the Epic version.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

FRCS: Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting

And it is still too powerful. The argument that you need two feats is null, since one of the ones you need can be used in many many other ways (even if you don't reduce it's level). It is not uncommon to pick up empower at 3rd level, more likely at 6th level. Then at 9th with this supposed feat. You think it is balanced to allow someone empowered 4th level spells at 9th level, compared to someone getting an extra arrow shot at them? I don't think so. The other danger, apart from allowing people to metamagic their feats earlier, is that they can metamagic higher level spells, such as maximised 7th or empowered 8th level spells.

Fine as a special PrC ability, otherwise it needs toning down. Perhaps you could say it takes a full round action to cast a spell in this way (or an extra round for Sor/Brd)? If you do insist on using the feat...

 

[Steverooo]

sircaren, forgive me for my ignorance, but what does FRCS stand for?

Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook, I believe...

No, I've never seen this Feat, either. Probably Non-WotC.

 

[dagger]

I'm pretty sure its not in the FRCS.

 

[Wraithwin]

LOL I know for a fact that it's not WotC.

Hmm.. Alright, who's up for helping me out then?

Maybe I'll come across it again later, but for now let's try this. Just spoke to my GM, and he thought it wasn't too bad. However, you all think it's too powerful. I see your point too, so I understand what your'e saying. My GM said that the feat could be used, if I provided requirements that were acceptable to others as well.

Things to consider;
- Incantatrix character can receive a -1 to all meta costs at character level 13. (level 5 wizard, 8th level Incantatrix ability)
- Even with it applying to only a single metamagic feat, it's too powerful to merely have 2 metamagic feats as a requirement.

I believe that the 2 Metas as a prereq is a good start seeing it would require the character to be familiar with them. Skill ranks may be ok, but most feats don't require them. My suggestion would be a level requirement.
- Any 2 metamagic feats
- Spellcaster Level 9
and possibly
- Spellcraft & Concentration: 11 Ranks

How does that sound?