(Need help) How do I make a Paladin WILLING give up their Paladinhood?

[Death_Jester]

I am running a Evil campaign useing the AEG supplement and I need some help here. I have a friend and she is playing a paladin that wants to become a Blackguard.

I would like to know if anyone has ever done a story where a player willing gave up thier paladin hood in order to accomplish something? It needs to be spectacularly Evil in order for her to become a blackguard or at least very nasty.

Some backgroud she is a Chaotic Good Paladin of a special diety in the birthright realms. You don't really need the details of the setting just know that her current diety is a battle god and prizes personal accomplishment in battle. I was thinking this might be good path to the darkside but I would still like to hear what you think. She has a very black background think of someone that is almost a half fiend in compairison and you would be close to the mark. One last thing she is part of a big group of knights, the majority of which are off helping in the a policing action during a civil war in the kingdom that the players are in. She and a handful of knights are now in charge of a small fortified temple in the heart of the kingdom. They are literly holding the fort while the knights are out. While there is very little to do she has gone off to try to help a group of local adventures and to gain some combat experience.

I know the most obivious question you will have is "Why do you want to do this? Why not just have her already be a fallen Paladin?"

My answer is because it will have more impact on the character and the campaign if this happends while during play.

The next thing you will ask is "Why have a paladin in an Evil campaign?"

My answer is that she wants to play a Blackguard and the only way to become one is to have once been a Paladin.

I hope this helps I already have some good ideas but thanks for any help in advance

 

[hong]

Episodes 1-3 are essentially the chronicle of a paladin becoming a blackguard. I'm sure you could steal a few ideas from that.

 

[Cyclops]

Girlfriend vs celebacy....Hmmm. OOps he's caught! The shame!
Oh no! Girlfriend accidentally killed by higher level paladin. (its not really his fault) Hero goes nuts-rejects his paladinhood.

Or...
Hero wins new helmet from an enemy. Oh no! Its a helm of oposite alignment!

Or...
Hero destined to be villan. ala star wars ep 2! He kills a whole tribe of tuskin raid...er goblins. yeah.

or...
Personal tragedy demands bloody revenge. Hero desn't stop with villans, but takes out wives and children. Oh no! Its the star wars thing again!

 

[Rackhir]

Well, characters generally "fall" based on either some desire that can't be fullfiled by remaining good (vengence, lust or power are all favorites) or by some character flaw (arrogance, pride, envy, insecurity, paranoia, etc...) that drives them to commit evil acts. However, you haven't really told us anything about what drives this character.

So let's look at this scenario. You mention that the character practically had a half-fiend background and follows a god of battle. Since her background probably causes her to be looked at with a fair amount of suspicion and mistrust. That gives us some bitterness over how she's been treated. Now, say she has a rival who is always just a bit better than she was when they were training. You've got the seeds of envy there. Finally we'll drag in pride, something causes her to be humilliated and denied recognition for her accomplishments. So here goes.

The temple she's guarding is attacked and sacked/looted/burned whatever. She fights valliently taking a great toll on whomever, but is at last overcome (knocked out, held, slept whatever). Her rival however was nowhere to be found during the battle (cowardice, behind the attack, whatever). When she is revived she finds out that her rival is being credited (unjustly) with being a hero in the situation. While her rival has basically named her a coward and cast various aspersions as to her involvement with the attack.

So she's demoted and disgraced for crimes she didn't commit, after lifetime of suspicion and harrassment, all due to a hated rival who has ruined her life. Sounds like cause for chucking it all and going over to the other side for me. Plus it gives her a sworn enemy and something to avenge.

 

[LostSoul]

How about this:

She communes with her God, who reveals that the only way to fulfill (or stop) an ancient prophecy is to embrace the darkness.

Keep some secrets regarding her reasons for her fall and she'll probably try to figure it all out.

 

[Darklone]

Do something classical. Let her fall in love with a druid or some other nature religion that is tolerated by her church.

Then more and more dark magic happens in that particular village. Think about Salem. Finally her lover is burned for things he probably (?) didn't do.

First let her lose her faith in the church. Perhaps caused by an inquisitor who KNEW that her lover was not guilty but burned him since he had to burn someone.

Lawful good religions pose thousands of possibilities for moral dilemmas (See Lady despina Storyhour and the sequel : Heretic of Wyre)

 

[Myrddin Wyllt]

Just as an aside: you don't have to be a Paladin to become a Blackgaurd, it just makes for an extra special Blackgaurd. I have run BBEG Blackgaurds as DM and they work just fine without the extra post-Paladin goodies. If that was the only motivation for starting Paladin, I understand, but it does make your job as DM a bit harder (not impossible by any stretch of the imagination).

As advice I offer the following:

While the Paladin is off galavanting around, kill off the rest of the NPCs gaurding the fort. Leave an important priest barely alive from some kind of ability damage, to force the Paladin to sit around and brood while the priest heals (let them nurse him back to health). Then have god-boy denounce the Paladin for leaving them all to their fate. Have her stripped of rank and ejected from the church, official-like.
Give the Paladin a cause (via false Prophecy, supposed friend, etc.) that is not openly embraced by her church, like vengeance on those who committed the murders. Have the evil forces convince her that they are her friends and would like to help her (they will benefit by killing off some competition).
Give the Paladin some opportunities to kill what seems to be the guilty parties (but are really innocent bystanders implicated by the aforementioned evil forces) to give her a false sense of atonement. Let her eventually find out that she's killing innocents, but convince her that it doesn't matter, as long as her lust for violence is sated, and watch that alignment shift!!
Eventually the PC will gain sufficient experience and prerequisites to take the PrC, and then have the Paladin be approached by a group that has heard of her exploits and by then she should be ready to follow them willingly, just to feed her by-now-outrageous bloodlust and anger at the injustices of the world.

 

[TheOneTheTen]

I was gonna suggest using (DragonLance) Lord Soth's fall from grace as an inspiration, but Myrddin seems to have beaten me to it (even if they weren't thinking of Lord Soth in particular).

The fact that the character has a current responsibility opens up some great roleplaying opportunities for the player. Given the character's 'semi-fiend' background, the possibility of selfishness always arises.

Maybe: give the character a mission - a solo mission to retrieve reinforcements for the fortification. The chance to obtain something they've always wanted arises during their journey. Maybe they are courted by the god worshipped by the BlackGuard in your world as they must be a fairly powerful character and they've watched the evil grow in them over time. Let the character choose selfishness over assisting their comrades and go after something for themselves.

Maybe....

 

[Palantir]

I like hong and Rackhir's suggestions. Combine a character flaw with an unfulfilled need. In SW Eps 1 and 2, Anakin is filled with the need to protect the ones he cares about and combines that need with the flaw of pride.

"Someday, I will be the most powerful Jedi ever!" Why? So he can protect people.

Enter the antagonist.

Overtly, the mentor helps the apprentice gain power and ability, pretending to help the apprentice fulfill his desire (i.e. to protect people). But, because the need is unfulfillable, the apprentice contiues to knock himself out trying to accomplish it. The mentor continues to feed that desire, but now begins to show the apprentice that the people he's trying to protect are the people that are trying to harm the people he's REALLY trying to protect!

Sound confusing? It's supposed to be. When the character begins to not know right from wrong, up from down, that's when the fall occurs. When he looks back at the horrible things he's done, he's ashamed, but there's nothing left to go back to.

I'm guessing that in Ep3, and Anakin begins to wipe out the Jedi at the behooving of Darth Sidious, he realizes that it is too late to go back. He can only forge ahead, into the darkness, to protect himself. Once all the people he's cared about are dead, or turned against him, he has nothing left BUT the darkness... and the evil mentor who never left his side.

So, for your paladin, see if there is a character flaw you can exploit (pride in battle, anger at betrayal, etc.) and combine that with an unfulfillable need (wipe out all evil, protect the order against all wrong, etc.). With those two characteristics, you have the making for a fallen hero.

In my opinion, anyway. YMMV.

Good Luck!
Mark

 

[Death_Jester]

Thanks for the imput!

Greetings Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am back from my little vacation to find all kinds of good stuff waiting for me here in this little post. I will be reading the Story hour for any ideals that I can get.

A little bit about the Paladin's personality and what motivates her in order for you to help me out specifically. (Thanks Rackhir) Unfortunately She is a very new to 3rd Ed and hasn't come up with a good motivation for the character as of yet. She has a wonderful history though. When I get the chance I will get her to talk to me about what drives her and work from there.

I do however have a few Ideas of my own I would like to share with the group to see what you think.

The Paladin is followed by a cleric of a rival religion (this is a player character by the way). This cleric was sent to help "convert" the Paladin and help her see the light of things. I have plans for the church to have a few skeletons in their closet that will surly make the paladin question her faith. The rival cleric will have some special dispensation to block the paladin’s ability only twice to "test her faith" (anyone that has read Job in the bible knows what I'm talking about.) Hopefully this will be at the appropriate time to cause a crisis of faith.

Very soon she will find a "Paragon" of the faith (a mighty Paladin of at least 5th level) he will have been left behind to protect the temple with her. She will find him drunk and incapable of doing his duties. If she brings this up to anyone within the faith she will be told in no uncertain terms that the man in question is of impeccable character and that she is clearly mistaken. This will make an enemy of the Superior paladin and alienate her from the rest of the order. Later on in the game she will find out the reason that the paladin is a drunk. He saw his friends killed by some horrible outsider. He was the only survivor of the group. That is the story that he told the high priests anyway.

The truth is that he found out that one of his companions was going to bring charges against a high official of the church for something terrible. Out of a sense of duty to protect the church he killed the companion and later the entire group were attacked by a powerful outsider and killed to the man, except him of course. He has covered up the problem with the Priest and now lives with guilt so profound that it is slowly eating at him. He drinks to get away from it.

The official in the church as a special interest in the development of the young at a local orphanage and has been a regular "patron" of the children, especially after hours if you take my meaning. Anyway the paladin confronted the official and they came to an understanding. That one would not reveal the others secret and cover for one another if need be. Needless to say that neither have been able to access their class abilities for quite a while now but they have nonetheless kept their positions in the church.

The young paladin will find out about the priest and the paladin this way. One night there will be a fire in the orphanage near the temple and the paladin will be passed out drunk as usual and the young paladin will catch him. The young Paladin will see the priest leaving the scene and will have to decide between catching up with the priest and saving the children. The drunken Paladin and the young Paladin already have a grudge because of the earlier incident and this will look to the rest of the order as if it were a bit of name calling on the part of the young paladin. The high priest who was already in the orphanage will be the first to protect the drunken paladin and deny that he was even there.

Hopefully things will come to a head and the Cleric of the rival deity will use the ability to block her powers and that will eventually cause her to see the entire order as hypocrites and tell them to go to the hells.

She will become an outcast and enemy of the church they will hunt her down like a dog. Hopefully she will accept some help from the other side. (And to misquote Darth Vader "her path to the darkside will be complete" or something likes that.)

This is tentitive at best but I would like to hear what you think and how to make it better or more personal.