Need help in playing lawful characters

[tzor]

The easiest way is to say that "law" is discipline. Discipline, whether it is getting up every day before the sun rises to do an hour of excercises, maintaining a code of conduct which you try to follow as best as you can, following the accepted norms of behavior both socially and in society, forms the base element where all the basic tennents of law are thus derived.

 

[arscott]

That depends.

Does your list of rules boil down to, "Do whatever feels right"?

If so, that's Chaotic.

Does your list of rules look more like, "I have the following hierarchy of loyalty: Ship, Shipmate, Self"?

That's more Lawful (and, hopefully, LG; LE might be Ship, Self, Shipmate).

I wouldn't consider "Ship, Shipmate, Self" to be inherently lawful or inherently chaotic, depending on what exactly is meant by "loyalty". Ship/Shipmate/Self is about where you value your own welfare in comparison to the welfare of others. To me, that's a good/evil question.

The law/chaos aspect isn't about welfare at all. Its about where you value your own judgement in comparison to the judgement of others. A chaotic character is likely to trust his own judgment, while a lawful character will differ to the judgment of others.

 

[Bad Paper]

I love Lawful Stupid. I always keep my eyes open for the latest in Lawful-Stupid fashion. A couple of days ago I watched the Bridge on the River Kwai, and Colonel Nicholson is the epitome of the lawful-stupid mindset. I think he is technically Lawful Neutral, or perhaps Lawful Good. But if you want a frustrating Lawful personality, you can't get much better than him.

 

[erucsbo]

straying from the original question, but remember that the Law v Chaos thing was based on the opposing forces in Moorcock's Elric series.
Simply put - a balance is required for life.
Excessive Law leads to stagnation and lack of development - ie - a picture frozen in time.
Excessive Chaos leads to anarchy and instability - ie - a constantly changing, warping, shifting everything.
This is also the force balance depicted in Bablyon 5 and both it and the Elric stories tend to lean towards Lawful = Good and Chaotic = Evil which was the way things were in OD&D. The 9 category system in AD&D sought to retain the same Law v Chaos axis while recognising that Good wasn't constrained to being Lawful and Evil didn't have to be Chaotic.
Lawful Stupid came about because of blind faith and obedience to a set of rules even when they were not appropriate or pragmatic.
Lawful Neutral is actually closer to Lawful stupid than Lawful Good is due to the law being seen as paramount (whereas LG sees the Law supporting Good for the many, while LE sees the Law supporting "Good" for those in power at the expense of others).
Lawful stupid is not the same as bloody-mindedness or strict observance of a set of rules - but is often treated that way by DMs or players who tend to favour the chaos = freedom way of thinking.
Sure - a law abiding citizen may take fewer risks than an adventurer, and reap fewer rewards than those willing to gamble with their lives/money/etc - but would you want to live in a world where everyone/thing was chaotic? You couldn't plan, couldn't rely on things to be the same day after day, couldn't use experience to recognise dangers and opportunities. That is why societies form and are able to survive (by lawful behaviour).
Lawful characters provide the anchor to adventuring parties, the stability and reliability that enables them to work as a team. Chaotic characters let adventuring parties get "in to trouble" to make the game more interesting ;-)

 

[Voadam]

If you are evil - put self first. If you are good - put self last. if Neutral - put self in the middle.

I consider fanatical devoted martyrs who place their dark god's/fiendish master's interests above those of themselves evil and not good.

 

[erucsbo]

I consider fanatical devoted martyrs who place their dark god's/fiendish master's interests above those of themselves evil and not good.

for me it depends on the reason.
If you worship a dark god then there is usually a very selfish motive for doing so (promise of power, retribution against enemies, rewards in the afterlife) or you are stupid/brainwashed etc.
Leaving aside the stupid angle - it then becomes a means to achieving personal goals - they just happen to coincide / mesh / and may be subsumed by the goals of the dark god / fiendish master (which is the way the dark god / fiendish master would like it to be in the end anyway - a willing puppet to their aims).

imho - If they are fanatical without any possibility of personal gain (even if that personal gain is a nihilistic wish for destruction - or a desire to escape torments in the afterlife) then they are either stupid or not evil (just misguided).