Need help on new type of orc

[Artos]

Hey everyone. I’m going to be running a new DnD game soon, and I need some help designing a few things for the game. The world will be constructed differently than most worlds, using a completely different design. The world is a Dyson Sphere, a gigantic hollow sphere with all life occurring on the inside. The sun is contained inside, and, due to the magic nature of the world, it has an atmosphere that extends throughout the entire planet. Now, the main result of this construction is the fact that there is no night, and with the gigantic atmosphere, trees can be, and are, HUGE, miles high, and most life goes on in the top levels of them. Elves live only at the very top (they’re terrified of the dark), Humans live in the top few levels, never in complete darkness, but sometimes in shadow. Halflings are nomadic and tribal, living a level or two down in the trees, consummate hunters and stalkers, learning how to use the shadows greatly to their advantage. Gnomes are. . . unique, and dwarves functionally don’t exist. However, Orcs live in the lower few levels, rarely in full light.

My problem is, I need help with the orcs. I’m planning on making them a bit like Cro-Magnon men. I.e. a half-way point between humans and gorillas/monkeys. They have longer, stronger arms, prehensile feet, etc. So, what kind of stats should I give them? And how should I change half-orcs? I’m thinking for half-orcs the following information:

* +2 Str, +1 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Cha.
* Medium-size.
* Base Speed: 30 ft.
* Low-light vision. Half-orcs have developed eyes that make more efficient use of light than other races
* Orc Blood/Weapon Familiarity
* Automatic Languages: Common and Orc.
* Favored Class: Barbarian
* +2 to all Climb and Balance checks.


Now, here’s the orc stat-block.

Medium-size humanoid
Hit Dice: 1d8+1
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft base.
AC:
Attacks: Greataxe +3, Javelin +2 or Throwing Axe +2, 2 Arms +3
Damage: Greataxe 1d12+3, Javelin 1d6+2 or Throwing axe 1d6+2, 2 Arms 1d3+3 each.
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft. / 5 ft.
Special Qualities: Low light vision, Light Sensitivity
Special Attacks: Improved Grab, Constrict 1d4 +2
Saves: Fort: +1, Ref: +1, Will: -1
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 13, Con 11, Int 8, Wis 9, Cha 7
Skills: Spot: +2, Listen: +2, Climb: +4, Jump: +2, Balance: +1.
Feats: Brachiation.
Climate/Terain: Any forested land.
Challenge Rating: PLEASE HELP!
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually any evil and chaotic neutral
Advancement: By character class.

COMBAT
Light Sensitivity: Orcs suffer a –1 penalty to attack rolls and any rolls that involve sight. Spot rolls suffer a –2 penalty.
Improved Grab: To use this ability, the orc must hit with both arm attacks on an opponent of Medium or smaller size. If it gets a hold, it can constrict.
Constrict: An Orc who has another creature in a grab can deal 1d4+3 points of damage a round. It can instead choose to squeeze the air out of a creature. Said creature can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to their Constitution modifier, after which they must make a Fortitude save (DC equal to orc’s Strength check). Each successive round suffers a –1 penalty to the victim’s fortitude saving throw.



Okay, this basically qualifies everything I want to do. Any suggestions anyone has, I would LOVE to take. I also need help on what the CR for this version is. Thanks.
-ChrisC

 

[fba827]

Well- am already half asleep so didn't give this a good reading. One thing I did notice though, the stat adjustments should be even numbers (you have Dex at +1).

Beyond that, I will need some sleep to actually think.

I like the layout of the world though - sounds well thought-out and interesting

 

[Bean 2.0]

ok when will the +/- odd numbers to stats end ?

OK , first the arms attack on the orcs ditch it just give them improved unarmed strike feat as a bonus feat, then they can take the improved grapple feat from oriental adventures or was it Rokugan

Improved grapple (general)
Preqs. : Improved unarmed strike
Benefit: when you hit with an unarmed attack you mack initiate a grapple without provoking an a.o.o.

second ditch the squeeze air out ability its a overwhelming ability that will never get used since it requires a lot of time especialy once you start taking on tough critters like ogres, gnomes or some humans

third list the skill bonuses for the full blood orcs

4 possibly up damage on constrict to 1d6+1 and 1/2 str mod

5 considering the climbing, wood craft, and sneaking in darkness these orcs would do maybe ranger or even rouge (a thuggish enforcer type) would be the races favored class, heck with all the new stuff for non-monk unarmed fighters (maybe find a monk prestige class without the lawful requirement) these guys could even be serious unarmed fighters spurning the contraptions of the weak light loving races.

aside from mentioning that the odd number stat adjustment needs to be fixed not much i can say about the halfs until there's more on the fulls

 

[Artos]

Originally posted by Bean 2.0 OK , first the arms attack on the orcs ditch it just give them improved unarmed strike feat as a bonus feat, then they can take the improved grapple feat from oriental adventures or was it Rokugan

Okay, I accept that, I just am very bad at listing attacks and such, or how I should do so. In fact, this is the only monster I've ever designed.

second ditch the squeeze air out ability its a overwhelming ability that will never get used since it requires a lot of time especialy once you start taking on tough critters like ogres, gnomes or some humans

I just liked the way this sounded. I doubt I'd use it against PC's, but I think it sits well. I may get rid of it though, not sure yet.

third list the skill bonuses for the full blood orcs

Done:
Skills: Spot: +2 (+3 ranks, -1 Wis), Listen: +2 (+3 ranks, -1 Wis), Climb: +7 (+4 ranks, +2 Str, +1 natural Bonus), Jump: +3 (+1 ranks, +2 Str), Balance: +2(+1 rank, +1 Dex).
I did raise some of their skills because as I looked over it, it makes sense for them to have some of those skills higher based on their abilities. Though I may drop the natural bonus from Climb.

4 possibly up damage on constrict to 1d6+1 and 1/2 str mod

Hmmm, maybe, but they're pretty powerful as it is. I'll think about it.

5 considering the climbing, wood craft, and sneaking in darkness these orcs would do maybe ranger or even rouge (a thuggish enforcer type) would be the races favored class, heck with all the new stuff for non-monk unarmed fighters (maybe find a monk prestige class without the lawful requirement) these guys could even be serious unarmed fighters spurning the contraptions of the weak light loving races.

I'm thinking of opening up the favored classes a bit. Humans get all, Halflings get Rogue and Ranger, Elves get Wizard and Sorcerer, Gnomes would get Barbarian and Ranger (it makes sense for my setting), Half-Orcs get Fighter and Barbarian. it just seems more reasonable to me.


I'll change the Dex bonus to half-orcs. So, any other advice? Also, what would the CR be? Maybe 1? 2 possibly? I can't see any higher.

-ChrisC

 

[Bean 2.0]

ok why does the full orc get plus one to climb and +0 to balance when the half has +2 to both

second the squeeze breath ability either needs to be ditched or changed so it takes less tim

 

[Bean 2.0]

ok why does the full orc get plus one to climb and +0 to balance when the half has +2 to both

second the squeeze breath ability either needs to be ditched or changed so it takes less time and is not as devestating

 

[Galethorn]

One thing to keep in mind, Cro-Magnon were basically the earliest modern humans, i.e. the only difference between them and us is purely based on "Nurture" rather than "Nature".

I think what you might be thinking about is a more primative homonid, like Homo-Habilis or Neanderthals.

 

[Nifft]

My suggestions:

Elf Favored Classes: Wizard and Fighter, or Wizard and Rogue, or even Wizard and Druid -- it really depends on if they are famous for training & education, or stealth, or connection with Nature.

Half-Orc favored classes: IMHO either Barbarian and Ranger or Barbarian and Druid are better for a "savage" race than Fighter, which IMHO represents a high degree of training with "advanced" weapons, armor & tactics.

Constrict: I just don't see it. Is your orc part snake somehow?

Worldbuilding: awesome. I'm going to steal part of this. I hope you don't mind.

Skills: Half-Orcs have higher Str than normal humans, so it would make more sense if their skill bonuses were both to Str-skills. I recommend Climb and Jump (in place of Balance).

Stats: I'd give them +2 Str, -2 Cha. They've lost Darkvision (from the PHB version) and Low-Light Vision doesn't make up for that loss. So, compensate them with +2 Int.

-- Nifft

 

[Technik4]

I like the constrict ability. If they attack in large groups (and what orc doesnt?) then it could be a deciding factor if the first wave of orcs just grabs the front line. Then other orcs follow-up from behind and engage in melee.

Try making the parent-race before making the hybrid, as it will become easier to make the hybrid when the parent is done.

From RoF:

Mountain Orc
Medium-Size (30 ft movement)
+4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
Darkvision 60 ft.
Proficient with Greataxe and Javelin
Light Sensitivity
Orc Blood
Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus: Draconic, Dwarven, Giant, Goblin.
Favored Class: Barbarian

So first we must analyze what we like and what we don't. I think medium-size is a given. What do you think of the stats? As someone said, strength is the base ability for Climb, which would seem to be these guys' forte. I suggest leaving the Strength and citing that they usually climb trees as a gorilla, going up the trunk and that they stick to larger branches because their thick frames arent supported by smaller ones.

Those negative modifiers are all fairly reasonable. They balance out the large strength, plus as you said they are sort of a pre-man type thing so reduced mental abilities makes sense.

Proficiency with Greataxe and Javelin. This is tricky as these weapons are clearly more of a charging across the plains type thing. Perhaps give them Blow Gun in place of Javelin? As for greataxe I suggest giving them a weapon that will assist in the environment.

Light Sensitivity clearly makes perfect sense, so that stays. The rest is pretty basic stuff, so might as well keep it.

Now you are adding a constrict attack as well as a couple skill bonuses. Neither of these things are very powerful (at least not powerful enough to raise the CR) but make for very good flavor of the sub-race of orcs you are making. At this point it would be good to decide what you want their CR to be. I think the regular orc is CR 1/2? Do you want a tougher orc, or just a modified build of the regular orc? Keep in mind that part of the reason orcs make hordes is because singly they are not very strong.

Also orcs have no adjustment as far as ECL. Neither do half-orcs. From my reading of what you're going for, you could use these races as-is from the phb, with a few little bennies tacked on (and noone will be the wiser, youre the dm after all). I would suggest a racial +4 to climb for orcs, which cuts down to an easy +2 climb for half-orcs. You may want to also give half-orcs a bonus proficiency, like blow-gun or dart or whatever you decide to do.

And now, for a small rant on Favored Class. I think favored class is a good idea since it is the only thing promoting NOT multiclassing. By making favored class more diverse for each race you are sort-of diluting the concept as well as opening the backdoor for munchkins to exploit it. Now, if you know your players and it wont be a problem, I wouldnt think twice about it and possibly abolish the system altogether (as others on this board have done).

The other thing it does is give the race some flavor. This is usually the one thing they excel at as a race. Look at elves and wizardry. Are all elves wizards or do they have a couple levels in wizard? No. There are many single-class rangers, rogues, sorcerors, and clerics in any campaign. All the favored class implies is that it would be very easy for those characters to pick up wizardry, it is an innate thing for them. If any of them had to, they could begin training as a wizard and in a reasonable amount of time (ie- without a 20% xp loss) show aptitude.

Removing favored class, or granting a choice between favored classes will generally serve to make for more multiclassing, imo.

Anyway, sounds like a great campaign!

Technik

 

[Artos]

My suggestions:

Elf Favored Classes: Wizard and Fighter, or Wizard and Rogue, or even Wizard and Druid -- it really depends on if they are famous for training & education, or stealth, or connection with Nature.

Wizard and Druid make sense. I'll seriously consider this change.

Half-Orc favored classes: IMHO either Barbarian and Ranger or Barbarian and Druid are better for a "savage" race than Fighter, which IMHO represents a high degree of training with "advanced" weapons, armor & tactics.

I understand that. I just don't see them getting spells from Druid easily, but Ranger might work.

Constrict: I just don't see it. Is your orc part snake somehow?

Basically this is something I just get the image of these creatures with these eally long arms being able to grapple and slowly crush their victim. Like a bear-hug.

Worldbuilding: awesome. I'm going to steal part of this. I hope you don't mind.

Don't mind at all. Do remember this, there wouldn't be a day/night cycle to define sleep cycles, so you'll have to figure out a way for that. I'm debating having all races not need sleep. Though magical forms of sleep work well. Maybe the Gods have a truly divine sleep spell roaming the world. You need to also remember that there would be no seasons, and no years. Also, most of my races are utterly terrified of complete darkness. However, the sun has a gigantic dark spot that circles the globe every 2 years. So, for two weeks, there is a period where it's almost completely dark (for the people who live there, that's terrifying). If you want to discuss it, I'd be happy to. Just drop me a line Artos2@hotmail.com

Skills: Half-Orcs have higher Str than normal humans, so it would make more sense if their skill bonuses were both to Str-skills. I recommend Climb and Jump (in place of Balance).

I'll make that change. The Balance was for having more pre-hensile toes than normal.

Stats: I'd give them +2 Str, -2 Cha. They've lost Darkvision (from the PHB version) and Low-Light Vision doesn't make up for that loss. So, compensate them with +2 Int.
-- Nifft

Darkvision is useless for most races in this setting. Unless you're in the absolute lowest levels of the forest/jungle, there's ALWAYS light, so Orcs and Half-orcs don't have any reason to have Darkvision.

Basically, when I was defining the world and the races in it, I decided many of the things I wanted the World to have, then thought of what abilities different races would have evolved in this setting. It gives them a more realistic flavor.

Again, anyone wants to talk about my setting, I'd be happy to. I appreciate any advice. It's pretty detailed so far, but I always like advice.
-ChrisC