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Need help with a concept

garrowolf

First Post
I am working on an idea for my Nexus D20 game system. Originally I had Damage, Penetration, and Damage Resistance in my system. Penetration lowered Damage Resistance and the DR left would lower the Damage. (Before anyone asks I wont remove Penetration)
Then you take the damage left over and that will tell you the wound level you take. Your damage and penetration ratings are modified by your strength, for melee weapons, and your margin of success over their defense.


All this means is that there is only one roll per attack. There is no damage roll, no critical roll, and no defense roll. It is fairly fast (faster than most game systems I've found) but the initial math slows things a bit down when you get into vehicle combat with the larger numbers.


Recently I came up with an idea that can make the game even faster and cut out some of the math. I have this idea called Hardness. Basically Hardness covers the difference between attacks that do lots of hull damage versus damaging the core systems. For people it would be some sort of armor that protects your vitals. It would work well for supernaturals too. You might be able to do a lot of minor damage to them but only special attacks (silver, stake through the heart, etc) would actually allow vitals damage.

In the wound system you can take lots of light wounds and eventually die that way or you can take one or two heavy or deadly wounds and be dead all at once. Wounds that stage will stage like this: Light > Moderate > Serious > Heavy > Deadly. Capitol ships are more likely to take lots of light wounds from small fighters and such.


So with the Hardness system added it becomes easier: Damage over the DR is taken as wounds. If the penetration of the weapon is higher than the Hardness of the target then those wounds stage up. This is much faster to figure out than the previous system.
The problem that I am having is coming up with a way to define the values for Hardness. Any ideas?
 

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garrowolf

First Post
Well last night I came up with a compromise. I changed Hardness to System and I only have it for Capitol Ships now.

But it response to your question this is an example of my standard combat that I had written up for my core book:

Low Tech Combat Examples


Low Skill Combat

Some farmers have decided that the new bard in town has been messing with their daughters. They are going to teach him a lesson. They go to the Inn where the bard has been spending most of his time to find him. They barge in while he is standing beside the fireplace singing. They yell and point at him so surprise is not an issue.

Bard 4rd level
Str +0, Dex +0, Con +1, Int +1, Wit +1, Pre +2, Class Bonus +2
Reflex 16, Stunned 13, Fort 17, Will 14, HTH 5, Tough 7, Composure 4, Notice 13
Basic Skills: Beastcraft +3, Melee +2, Perception +3, Resolve +4, Survival +3
Academics (T) +7 History, Mythology
Athletics (T) +6: Brawling, Clubs, Dancing
Persuasion (T) +8: Bragging, Charming, Mooch, Oratory
Resistance (T) +7: Tireless, Iron Stomach, Resist Cold
Celtic Lore (B) +3 ms
Singing (T) +3 ms
Fiddle (B) +3 ms

Farmer 3rd level +1 LA Tough = 4th Level
Str +3, Dex +0, Con +5, Int +0, Wit +2, Pre +3, Class Bonus +1
Reflex 15, Stunned 12, Fort 16, Will 12, HTH 8, Tough 7, Composure 5, Notice 13
Basic Skills: Athletics +3, Melee +1, Perception +3, Resolve +2, Survival +3
Beastcraft (T) Cattle, Wagoneering
Resistance (T) +6: Tireless, Iron Stomach, Resist Cold
Farming (F) +7 ms



Round 1)
The farmers are initiating combat so they have initiative, but the bard can see them coming so he is not flatfooted.
The farmers take a simple action to cross the small room. This leaves them with one simple action to attack with but since they are not actually trained in Athletics any attacks they make are a complex action. This means that they can’t attack this round since you can do two simple actions or one complex action and they have already done one simple action by getting there.
However it is a free action to speak. The first farmer yells “I warned you!”
The other farmers just yell, “Get him!”
The bard puts down his fiddle. He doesn’t want to start anything so he just holds up his hands, “Now wait a minute guys!”

Round 2)
The first farmer yells and throws a punch. The Farmer doesn’t actually have any skill in brawling so he is defaulting to Athletics at -5. This gives him a total of -2 to hit before his roll. He rolls a 12 on a D20 and gets a total of 10. This is lower than the bard’s Reflex save of 16. A miss!
The second farmer tries to hit the bard. Since the bard has already defended himself once this round his defense goes down by 1. Now it is a 15. The farmer rolls a 15, but this becomes a 13 when you factor in his -2 skill. Nope.
The third farmer tries and rolls a natural 20! However he doesn’t have any skill with Athletics so there is no critical for him. This becomes an 18 which is higher than the bard’s reflex save, which is now a 14. This means that he has rolled 4 higher than the defense. Take the farmer’s HTH damage, which is 8 and add the difference (4) to make 12 damage.
The bard has a Toughness of 7 so subtract that from the 12 damage to get a damage of 5. From 1 to 5 damage is a light bashing wound so he is at a -1 now.
The bard holds his stomach with one hand and punches the last farmer who actually hit him. He does have brawling under Athletics so he has +6 to hit, but he has taken 1 bashing damage so he only gets a +5. He rolls a 11. With the +5 that becomes a 16. The farmers only have a reflex of 15 so a 16 hits with +1 to damage. The bard does 6. However the Farmers are tough so their Toughness of 7 stops all the damage. Opps!

Round 3)
The first farmer attacks again and rolls a 7. With a -2 that is a total of 5, which sucks. The bard’s defense resets to 16 -1 for damage, so 15.
The second farmer attacks and rolls a 12, which becomes a 10, which sucks as well. The bard’s defense is 14.
The third farmer attacks and rolls an 18, which becomes a 16. This hits since the bard currently has a reflex save of 13. This hits +3 damage to be 11 damage. The bard’s toughness is 7 so 4 gets through. This is within the light damage range so it gives him another -1 for a total -2.
The bard punches back with +6 for skill -2 for damage = +4 to hit now. He rolls a 13 +4 is 17. This is only 2 over the Farmer’s 15 Reflex defense so +2 to damage. He does 5 base so that becomes a 7, which is totally negated by the farmer’s toughness. He is in trouble!

Round 4)
The first farmer attacks and rolls a 16! Well it becomes a 14 but even with the bard’s defense resetting to 16 it becomes a 14 with the damage and that is enough to hit. There is no bonus damage but the Farmer does 8 damage and the Bard only has a toughness of 7 so he takes another light wound. Now he is at a -3. If he takes a total of -8 then he will go unconscious.
The second farmer attacks and rolls a 12. This becomes a 10 from the -2 to his skill. The bard has -1 from the previous defense this round and -3 from damage. This means that his defense is 11 so he just dodges out of the way.
The third farmer attacks and rolls a 15. This becomes a 13 but the bard’s defense is now a 10. This gives him +3 damage on 8 hand to hand damage. This becomes 11 and -7 for the bard’s toughness for a total of 4. Another light wound for a total of -4.
The bard is in bad shape so he tries to get out of there. He steps up onto the base of the fireplace that he was standing beside and steps from there to a table, then down the other side. That uses up his turn.

Round 5)
The first farmer goes over the table too. The second farmer goes one way and the third farmer goes the other way around the table. The bard backs up against another table and finds a knife that was beside someone’s interrupted meal. He picks it up and holds it in front of himself. This becomes a control action in one direction since the farmers aren’t going to grab someone with a knife.

Round 6)
The bard can only stop people from one direction so the first farmer holds action until they stop him from swinging the knife around. Whenever you hold action you have to declare what you are holding action until.
The second farmer grabs for the arm of the bard with the knife. This is at a -2. He rolls a 12 so it is a 10. The bard’s defense is 15 -4 = 11. This is the first attack against him this round so it misses.
The third farmer tries the same thing and rolls a 16. This becomes a 14. The bard’s defense goes down to 10 so this is a success. He has the bard’s arm.
The bard however has his knife in the other hand so he stabs the guy that is holding him. The problem with holding someone who is armed is that it makes it easier for them to hit you. The farmer is now flatfooted so he uses his stunned defense rating instead. The bard doesn’t have training with a knife so he is at a -5 but he has a base of +2 for melee so he has a -3. He rolls a 17, which after a -3 for defaulting and a -4 from his own damage is a 10. This is less than the 12 stunned save so he misses anyway.
Since the knife is still in play then this doesn’t trigger the first farmer’s held action so he loses his turn.

Round 7)
The first farmer tries to grab the arm with the knife in it. He rolls a 9. The bard is flatfooted since someone is holding one of his arms. This means that his base defense is 13 – 4 for damage, which makes it 9. He succeeds.
The second farmer takes the knife out of the bard’s hand. The third farmer is holding the other arm.
The bard can’t take an action since he is pinned.

Round 8)
The first farmer says, “Let’s throw him out of the village.”
The second farmer says, “It’s too late for that!” and stabs the bard. He rolls a 15 against a prone target, which gives him a 5 defense. The farmer doesn’t have any melee training either so his melee +1 becomes a -4. This gives him +6 to damage. The damage for a knife is 6/2. With the strength of the Farmer this becomes 9/5. The bard has a toughness of 7 but the knife has a penetration of 5 so he only has a 2 toughness versus the knife. So the damage is 15 -2 = 13. This is a serious wound. It does 3 lethal damage and stuns the target.
The third farmer drops the bard and backs away, “I didn’t want this!” The first farmer drops him too. “Let’s get out of here!”
The bard sits down and looks at the blood on his belly and hands.

Out of Combat)
They leave and the barkeep tells his son to get the town guard.


Unequal Combat

Two guards find the three farmers. The first farmer wants to explain what happened but the second farmer doesn’t trust them to listen and holds up a pitch fork towards the guards. They order him to drop the pitch fork but he refuses. This escalates things until the guard pulls out his sword.


Farmer 3rd level +1 LA Tough = 4th Level
Str +3, Dex +0, Con +5, Int +0, Wit +2, Pre +3, Class Bonus +1
Reflex 15, Stunned 12, Fort 16, Will 12, HTH 8, Tough 7, Composure 5, Notice 13
Basic Skills: Athletics +3, Melee +1, Perception +3, Resolve +2, Survival +3
Beastcraft (T) Cattle, Wagoneering
Resistance (T) +6: Tireless, Iron Stomach, Resist Cold
Farming (F) +7 ms
Equipped with poor quality pitchfork 7/4 (after adding str).

Infantry 5th level
Str +1, Dex +0, Con +1, Int +0, Wit +2, Pre +1, Class Bonus +2
Reflex 16, Stunned 13, Fort 17, Will 17, HTH 6, Tough 7, Composure 7, Notice 14
Basic Skills: Beastcraft +4, Perception +4, Resolve +3, Survival +3
Athletics (T) +6: Brawling, Running, Forced March, Dancing
Melee (T) +6: Knife, Chopping Sword, Shield, Formation
Ranged (T) +8: Spear
Resolve (T) +7: Spirit of the Corp
Resistance (T) +7: Light Sleeper, Medium Armor, Tireless, Iron Stomach, Resist Cold
Choose one craft minor skill (T) +8 ms
Dice Games (T) +8 ms
Storyteller (B) +3 ms
Equipped with a chopping sword 11/3 (after adding str), a small wooden shield (+3 defense), and wearing a metal scale shirt (4/10)

Blades - Chopping Sword
Size - 5
Dmg/AP - 10/2
Smash - +3
Defense - +4
Str - +1
Cost - 1s



Round 1)
The farmer is trying to do a control action and hold them off. He is holding action until he is attacked.
The first guard wants to knock the pitch fork out of the way. Since the farmer has no melee skill and the guard is trained then the guard doesn’t even need to roll to knock it out of the way. He spends a simple action moving the pitchfork out of the way. Then he attacks the farmer. He rolls a 17, +6 for his melee skill, gives him a 23. This is 8 higher than the farmer’s defense so it adds to the damage. The attack does 19/3. The farmer has a toughness of 7, which the penetration of the sword reduces to 4. 19 damage -4 toughness = 15 damage. This is a serious wound. The farmer is stunned this round and loses his action until the next turn. He loses initiative.
The second guard watches the other two farmers to make sure that they don’t interfere.

Round 2)
The first guard swings his sword again. The farmer is stunned so use his stunned defense of 12 – 3 for his serious wound so his defense is a 9. The guard rolls a 19! This is a critical hit and adds +5 to his roll. Then add the +6 for the guard’s melee skill for a total of 30. This is 21 over the farmer’s defense! He’s probably very dead.
We already saw that the farmers effective toughness was 4 from the last round. 11+21 -4 = 28. Since anything over a 20 is an instant kill the farmer is dead. The guard cuts the farmer’s head off in one stroke!

Out of Combat)
The other two farmers come quietly.
 

garrowolf

First Post
The alternate system would be that you would take the Damage - DR and divide that by the light wound threshold for the target (5 for humans) to see how many wounds they take. Then if the penetration was higher than the hardness of the target's armor then the damage would stage up instead of taking several light wounds.

The problem is that I can't seem to come up with a good value for Hardness that scales well.

I'm still debating with myself about this whole Hardness /System idea. I just looked at the wound levels for capitol ships and they aren't too difficult to calculate with.
 

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