Need help with Critical Hits

[Zamtap]

another question

I've played in 2 groups which have diffrent interpretations of the critical roll being another attack roll, the first said its another attack roll so it can be a threat itself , and therefore when appropiate needs a further crit threat roll to determine if the second is also a crit (a *2 weapon then deals *3 and a *3 weapon then deals *5 damage) and so forth.

The second says that the critical roll is the end point for that attack, ie once you know it is roll damage.

Is one of the groups right by RAW?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRD
Critical Hits
When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target’s Armor Class, and you have scored a threat. The hit might be a critical hit (or "crit"). To find out if it’s a critical hit, you immediately make a critical roll—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the critical roll also results in a hit against the target’s AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit. It doesn’t need to come up 20 again.) If the critical roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.

 

[wmasters]

I've played in 2 groups which have diffrent interpretations of the critical roll being another attack roll, the first said its another attack roll so it can be a threat itself , and therefore when appropiate needs a further crit threat roll to determine if the second is also a crit (a *2 weapon then deals *3 and a *3 weapon then deals *5 damage) and so forth.

The second says that the critical roll is the end point for that attack, ie once you know it is roll damage.

Is one of the groups right by RAW?

If I've understood it right, group 2 is right by RAW. If your first roll is a threat, your second roll is to confirm. The second roll cannot be a threat itself. So if you roll a 20 on your first attack roll it's a critical threat, and a 20 to confirm the it is a critical. You can stop rolling to hit with that attack there.

 

[Delak]

Thank you everyone for clearing that up for me.

 

[erc1971]

Another question...regarding what types of damage are multiplied and what ones are not.

I do know that Sneak Attack Damage is not multiplied on a crit. I also know that things like the Fiery Burst effect of extra damage on a crit is not multiplied.

And, I know that STR bonus and the weapons enhancement bonuses are multiplied.

But, what about everything else?

Is bonus damage from Arcane Strike Multiplied? Magical weapon effects like a weapon of Frost that deals an extra 1d6 cold damage on every hit, is this multiplied? Bonuses from temporary spell effects?

Thanks,
Eric

 

[werk]

I've played in 2 groups which have diffrent interpretations of the critical roll being another attack roll, the first said its another attack roll so it can be a threat itself , and therefore when appropiate needs a further crit threat roll to determine if the second is also a crit (a *2 weapon then deals *3 and a *3 weapon then deals *5 damage) and so forth.

I played in a group that did that as well, but it was in 3.0, so it may be a 'feature' or optional rule of that edition. They also played 20 as insta-crit, so we were rolling so see if we multi-crit. :\

My opinion is that it creates a wildly random element in damage dealing. Sure it's exciting when the players are cheering because the BBEG took 120 points of damage from one punch (while the DM cries a single tear), but when a goblin manages to kill the party tank on a AoO, those cheers are gone.

I try to minimize the variability of results IMC, so no "exploding criticals".

 

[werk]

Is bonus damage from Arcane Strike Multiplied?

Yes.

Magical weapon effects like a weapon of Frost that deals an extra 1d6 cold damage on every hit, is this multiplied?

No.

Bonuses from temporary spell effects?

Like what? Magic Weapon? Yes.

(let's see if I'm right... )

Basically, if it's the same type of damage, enhancements, it gets included, damage from the weapon. If it is another type of damage, like frost, or "extra" damage, like SA, then not.

I don't have the text for arcane strike in front of me, but I don't think that a paladin's smite damage would get multiplied, "...deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level."

 

[Paraxis]

The rule is simple.

You possibly crit when you hit and the natural number is within the threat range of the weapon. You do crit if the confirmation roll is a hit. That stops that process.

You determine damage by rolling the normal damage die and adding anything that is +X (where X is a NUMBER) a number of times equal to the crit multiplyer, then roll extra DICE of damage (from things like sneak attack, spells, eldrich blast (used on a melee attack), arcane strike, elemental enhancements to weapons,ect....)

By the way Goldmoon, between this ruling by your DM and the one about initiative on the other thread he needs to stop running the game. Play in a good game run by a DM who has read the rulebooks.

 

[werk]

By the way Goldmoon, between this ruling by your DM and the one about initiative on the other thread he needs to stop running the game. Play in a good game run by a DM who has read the rulebooks.

OH SNAP!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Basically, if it's the same type of damage, enhancements, it gets included, damage from the weapon. If it is another type of damage, like frost, or "extra" damage, like SA, then not.

I don't have the text for arcane strike in front of me, but I don't think that a paladin's smite damage would get multiplied, "...deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level."

The rule is that bonus damage dice are not multiplied. Bonus damage that is not expressed in terms of dice is multiplied.

So an ability that adds 1 point of fire damage to every attack gets multiplied. An ability that adds 1d4 points of fire damage is not.

An ability that adds 3 points of damage per level is multiplied; an ability that adds 1d6 points of damage per level is not.

-Hyp.

 

[werk]

The rule is that bonus damage dice are not multiplied. Bonus damage that is not expressed in terms of dice is multiplied.
-Hyp.

Thanks Hyp!

I read that as a statement to clarify multiplying vs. rolling, i.e. you aren't allowed to multiply dice, you have to roll them separately. So a crit on a longsword is 2d8 rather than 1d8x2. It normalizes the result, so it's harder to get minimum or maximum damage on a crit.

Are you saying that a flaming pick would deal 4d6 fire damage on a crit? He was asking how to tell what damage numbers get 'critified' on a critical hit.