Need help with my rogue's feats

[Jhyrryl]

You get Sneak Attack only for a single arrow!

Bye
Thanee

And specifically, only the first arrow, regardless of whether or not it hits.

 

[Jhyrryl]

She eventually will take levels in the Ninja Spy PrC from OA.

Then I really have to agree with the camp that says not to take Improved Initiative. +4 to initiative when you're already getting +8 or more from Dex at mid to high levels is practically meaningless, unless you're going up against a creature that also has improved initiative and a high Dex. Waiting for other people to go and then putting yourself into a flanking position is much more efficient than trying to guarantee that you go first.

If you're really going the spy route, try something other than a combat feat. Alertness probably isn't it, but maybe consider taking Magical Aptitude and train in Use Magic Device. You'll be able to use any wand w/o failure by your early teens - sooner with a Charisma item. And trust me, there's a lot of cool wands for a spy to be using.

But if you must go combat, Point Blank Shot is your long-term friend. If you're unsure about long-term play, go Weapon Finesse and don't be afraid to tumble into melee (just watch out for the friendly-fire fireballs if you go too quickly). But a word of warning - if your party has a strong melee-warrior type (possibly a cleric) and a wizard or sorc, you're going to find your rogue to be a non-factor in roughly half the significant fights you encounter by mid-levels. Between immunities to sneak attacks, creatures that stay outside your sneak attack range, and the sheer ability of your combat oriented peers to eliminate weak opponents en masse, you'll be happy to get more than one significantly damaging hit in per encounter. Better to make sure your non-combat rogue-only time is at peak performance, IMO.

 

[two]

I'd second improved initiative - you have to go first.

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IME, the rogue is better off getting one good shot in than multiple bad ones, once using up the feat was factored in, but YMMV.trea

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Not a power PC, but did pretty good. By 9th level, she could get a sneak attack in surprise (bow, usually), one sneak attacks on round one (bow), one sneak attack on round two (FotW), which was usually enough - that was 20d6 in sneak attack damage in 12 seconds.

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Two "bad" attacks (rapid shot penalty is -1/-1 when within 30', the only time sneak attack applies, because of PBshot) is infinitely better than 1 "good" attack. (if one rogue takes PBshot / Rapid shot and the other takes Impr. Initiative + another feat).

It's not even close.

If you need to roll a "11" or higher with your good shot (bonus of +X) than you have a 50% chance of missing.

If you need to roll a "10" or higher with your "bad" rapid shot (bonus of +X-1) each shot has a 45% chance of hitting. How likely is it that BOTH rapid shot shots miss? .55 * .55 = .30 = 30% likelyhood of a total whiff using rapid shot.

Compare to the "one good shot" giving 50% whiff chance.

Plus, of course, both rapid shot hits could hit.

So, using Rapid Shot, the likelyhood of at least one hit is more than not using it, plus the likelihood of more damage is hugely greater than not using it. So, when would you NOT use Rapid Shot?

On very very rare occasions, when your enemy AC was not so high you need a "20" to hit, but almost. 99% of the time, you don't need to think about it.

PS Even if you are outside of 30' (or both rogues have PBS but only one has rapid shot), using rapid shot gives two +x-2/+x-2 attacks, with total miss in this case of .6*.6 = 36% chance of el whifferino. Way better than a single shot.

Want an extra bow attack? Pay for a bow of speed or select Rapid Shot. Your choice. one is way cheaper.

 

[jgsugden]

You get Sneak Attack only for a single arrow!

Bye
Thanee

Correct. My brain shut off for a second, there. Manyshpt os wprthless for a rogue.

 

[mzsylver]

You almost certainly want Point Blank Shot, followed by Rapid Shot.

Ignore precise shot. It is a bad feat for rogues. If you are shooting into melee (which precise shot helps deal with), a) you did not win initiative/it's probably not the first round of combat, thus, b) your foes are not flat-footed, and c) you won't get sneak attack dice.

precise shot aint bad for the improved invisible rogue though. hitting your friends while you're improved invisible can be a pain - ive seen it happen many times (but never done it myself of course )

i recommend eventually getting all of: improved initiative (going first, even if you arent going to do anything, is a GREAT thing), point blank/precise, weapon finesse (for when you get stuck in melee). after you have these i recommend going down the archery path if you want to shoot your bow a lot.

good luck! =)

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Improved Initiative.

Alertness will only help you ~10% of the time, and only when a roll is called for. Don't panic about your Spot and Listen, they will get strong if you invest the points as you keep level.

Improved Initiative will help you ~20% of the time you have combat.

For high offense low defense PCs it is nice to act first, but very, very dangerous to act after your enemies.

 

[Ogre Mage]

If you're really going the spy route, try something other than a combat feat. Between immunities to sneak attacks, creatures that stay outside your sneak attack range, and the sheer ability of your combat oriented peers to eliminate weak opponents en masse, you'll be happy to get more than one significantly damaging hit in per encounter. Better to make sure your non-combat rogue-only time is at peak performance, IMO.

Thanks, Jhyrryl, that is good advice. My character was designed more as a troubleshooter/scout than either a melee or ranged sneak attacker, and the Ninja Spy PrC definitely focuses more on scouting/infiltration over combat. Our group already has two strong warriors -- a fighter and a barbarian/druid. While they could provide me with flanking opportunities, I think it would be more helpful to the party to focus on skills.

Magical Aptitude (for improving UMD) would be great but my charisma isn't very good and I think the party bard would do better at filling this role than I. Skill Focus: Disable Device might be good (as Cerebral Assassin suggested) since I am the only party member capable of dealing with traps. I've also considered the Stealthy feat (+2 to move silently and hide) since I spend a fair amount of time scouting ahead for the group.

 

[hong]

Ninja spy is a great scout/infiltrator PrC. You get to do some pretty cool stuff later on: hide in plain sight, walking on water and dimension door 1/day. You do give up a bit in terms of raw butt-kicking potential, but if you're not so worried about that, it's all good.

 

[Orm]

Improved Initiative

It´s always good to act first, so you can either hit or run. It´s useful for ranged and melee. The melee fighters tend to stand in your way when you try to get off some arrows and you´re too late.

Then you should consider Weapon Finesse (especially with a DEX like that) in case the baddies come too close and you can´t back off.

Third you may want to boost your archer skills: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: Your Bow, Rapid Shot and all the other nice feats.

Throw in Two Weapon Fighting, four levels of fighter and Weapon Specialisation: Your Bow and you´re set for most situations in combat.

Think of adding Deepwood Sniper or Order of the Bow Initiate and boost your scouting skills and you will be a hell of a problem solver/scout

My two cents,
Orm

 

[Voadam]

From what you have posted you seem to be a skill focused niche rogue with a preference for archery over flanking sneak attacks. So combat seems secondary to your scout role in the party.

Consider skill boosts to hide and move silent, these are opposed rolls against spot and listen which many monsters have maxed out. The trapfinding skills are important but the DCs are usually pretty static and skill boosts will not give as much of a comparative advantage.

If you want to go archery then you might consider the Traps and Treachery feat that extends the range you can do sneak attacks (out to 45 feet I think). Also the increased sneak attack damage one is pretty nice.