D&D 5E Need help with vehicle carrying capacity

[Ancalagon]

This might be a time where consulting previous editions would be helpful. I don't have my books at this instant, but I'm 99% sure this was covered in 3.x

 

[Charlaquin]

Here's a way to do it...

Ok, let's assume that the cart, a vehicle designed to haul cargo, is a good baseline for deriving our capacity coefficient. A cart is designed to be pulled by one draft animal, so we can assume that it is also designed to handle the full carrying capacity of that animal. If we also assume that a vehicle's weight relates to its structural integrity (a heavier vehicle is more heavily reinforced), we can divide its remaining carrying capacity by its weight to get our coefficient: 2,500 / 200 = 12.5 pounds.

This means that every pound of vehicle weight can accommodate 12.5 pounds of cargo. Larding up a vehicle with weight beyond this ratio would risk structural failure (I'll leave those rules up to you).

(As an aside, I assume a PC would use a sled in lieu of a cart for arctic travel over snow. I mean, even if we ignore carrying capacity, why would most adventurers ever choose a sled over a cart anyways?)

That could work. We’d want to calculate that baseline capacity with an elephant rather than a draft horse of course, which would give us 6,400/200=32. But that’s a start. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Charlaquin]

This might be a time where consulting previous editions would be helpful. I don't have my books at this instant, but I'm 99% sure this was covered in 3.x

Yeah, that was my first instinct. It’s not in the SRD (I checked that before posting), but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s covered somewhere in the 3.5 catalogue. If it is, I don’t have what ever book it’s in, which is why I asked about previous editions in the first post.

 

[Ganymede81]

That could work. We’d want to calculate that baseline capacity with an elephant rather than a draft horse of course, which would give us 6,400/200=32. But that’s a start. Thanks for the suggestion.

I was going to ask why you think an elephant would be better, but instead I'm going to back away slowly then run, never to return.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

No, see, assuming a draft horse, which has a base carrying capacity of 540, which is multiplied by 5 when it’s pulling a vehicle, for a total of 2,700, times the number of horses, minus the weight of the vehicle. That means the oprions are
1-horse cart is 200 lbs. with a capacity of 2,500 lbs.
1-horse sled is 300 lbs. with a capacity of 2,400 lbs. for 5 gold more so why would you ever want one.
2-horse wagon is 400 lbs. with a capacity of 5,000 lbs.
2-horse chariot is 100 lbs. with a capacity of 5,300 lbs. for some reason, though I can’t imagine how.
4-horse carriage is 600 lbs. with s capacity of 10,200 lbs.

And this is all assuming fixed numbers of animals that aren’t actually specified in the rules. How many horses can a carriage theoretically accomodate? If I want to save Christmas and hook eight reindeer up to my sled (let’s say that’s comparable carrying capacity to a mule?), will it actually bare the weight of the 16,500 lbs. of presents they can move, or will the tobagon collapse under all that? Can I hitch a single elephant to my wagon and load it up with 6,200 pounds?

Like, the majority of the time, this really doesn’t matter. At the end of the day, I’ll have NPC traders use what ever vehicles and beasts of burden feel right for them. But clearly there’s a point where the rules as written break down, and I wondered if anyone had suggestions for figuring out the theoretical maximum weight the sample vehicles could carry. I’ve gotten a few vague suggestions, but nothing concrete so far.

Oops, didn't do the math correctly...

But my point is, that a cart or wagon maker won't over-design the cart by a significant amount. Just enough to be safe. More material is needed, the wagon is heavier, and the cost is higher. All things that most people would want to avoid.

If you have an elephant handy and you want to pull the wagon that was designed for 2 horses, then it's up to you as a DM to decide if you care enough about the way a wagon might need to be designed differently to handle being hauled by such a creature. And how overbuilt the wagon is before you risk failure of some part of the wagon (harness, wheel, axle, etc.).

Would the sled collapse under all that weight? It depends on whether the sled was designed to handle that much weight. I suspect not. More importantly, would it actually go anywhere, or would it just sink into the snow and get stuck? That's probably the bigger factor to capacity - the terrain and the fact that the wheels (or blades) aren't well designed to spread the load.

I suspect that most wagons were rarely filled to capacity. A wagon with a team of 4 horses was probably more about spreading the load to be able to travel longer without stopping as much. If the wagon was filled to the maximum capacity of the animal, then it probably can't haul it for very long.

Here's an interesting post regarding how much a civil war wagon hauled: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=563978

 

[thalmin]

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but the answer could be in 3e Arms and Equ8ipment Guide on pages 55-57. It covers vehicle speed empty and loaded, cargo capacity, and cover provided for driver and passengers. Carriage, cart, chariot, heavy chariot, sled (dog), stagecoach, and wagon, along with a few other vehicles. Prices are dramatically different from 5e.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

So, in general, the rule seems to be is that an animal pulling a vehicle can pull up to 5x its carrying capacity, including the weight of the vehicle. If multiple animals pull the same vehicle, they add their capacities together. I like that; it's simple, it's easy to use, and it's consistent with the carrying capacity rules (5x capacity being the amount a creature can drag). But, the problem I'm running into is that there are no guidelines for how much weight a vehicle can hold. Sure, one could say that the vehicle's carrying capacity is irrelevant, all that matters is if the animal can pull it all or not. Except, a cart (for example) weighs less than a wagon. So by RAW, you can technically carry more in a wagon than a cart, since the wagon itself weighs less and therefore takes up less of the animal's carrying capacity. So why would anyone ever use a wagon over a cart? It costs more, and technically can't carry as much.

Are there maybe rules on this from an earlier edition I could borrow? Or does anyone have a house rule on vehicle carrying capacities that has worked in there games? Does anyone have untested suggestions for how to handle this? Much appreciated if so.

If I was so inclined to need a "balance like this", I'd go to my old stand bye: Cost = Effectiveness.
I'd re-do the Cart and make it the base, with a Cost of 20gp with Weight Limit of 200lb. Now, just extrapolate.
Need to carry 1,000 pounds? Ok, that will be 100gp for a "reinforced wagon". Want that 1,500 pounds? Ok, you can get one custom made from Gunter Steelwood, the Gnome Cartwright; for 150gp and it will take 3 weeks to make. What's that? You want something MASSIVE, to carry 6,000lb of dead dragon and treasure? Ok, you're gonna need some Cracker-Jack cartwright's, who will need expensive and rare materials for the construction; 600gp's and 3 months.
..
How did I figure the time needed to craft? I made it up.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Charlaquin]

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but the answer could be in 3e Arms and Equ8ipment Guide on pages 55-57. It covers vehicle speed empty and loaded, cargo capacity, and cover provided for driver and passengers. Carriage, cart, chariot, heavy chariot, sled (dog), stagecoach, and wagon, along with a few other vehicles. Prices are dramatically different from 5e.

Haha thanks. I don’t really remember what I needed this information for back when I started this thread, but I do still find the question academically interesting. Thanks for the source, that’s probably the most helpful answer I got. Even if it was 3 years later.

 

[Khel]

A simple way would be to use the same capacities.

For example, a cart designed to be hauled by one horse/mule has a capacity that matches the animal it's designed for.

A wagon designed for two horses is twice as much.

The reverse is also true, the cart is designed to only accommodate one animal. So if you want to increase your hauling capacity to 2 or more animals, you need a wagon.

I think this is true as well. The way a typical cart is designed, there are two poles (one on either side of the horse). This is necessary to balance the load on the horse. Since there are only two wheels, steering is accomplished by turning the entire cart.

Whereas a wagon has a steerable front set of wheels, with a center beam that goes between a team of two or more horses. This doesn't even have to be a solid beam that's permanently connected to the wagon. You could design a cart that would work for two horses, but it's probably more practical to switch to a wagon at that point.

Another factor that comes to mind is there's probably a limit to the usable size of a cart. Since there aren't front wheels, the horse(s) hold the load up in addition to pulling it. With a wagon, all of their effort is in pulling it.

There's little reason to design a larger wagon that will only be hauled by two horses, as the extra weight of the wagon will offset any gain in capacity (unless your cargo is bulky but light). Otherwise you'd have wagons designed for two horses, four horses, and possibly more.

Technically, the weight of the cart/wagon wouldn't increase the same amount as the capacity. If you're concerned about that, consider that the increase in weight of the vehicle itself is a percentage of the increase as a whole. Perhaps 50% less when designing for a second animal, and 50% less again for the second pair.

Of course, people purchase better technology (wagon vs. cart) for other reasons. The ride is smoother in a wagon since it's riding on 4 wheels instead of 2 wheels and bouncing on the back of the animal up front. The wagon naturally remains level when disconnected from the animals, and it's probably easier to hook up a team to the harness of a wagon as well.

So assuming a draft horse, the options available would be:
1-horse cart is 200 lbs. with a capacity of 340 lbs.
2-horse wagon is 400 lbs. with a capacity of 640 lbs.
4 horse wagon is 600 lbs. with a capacity of 1,560 lbs.

There would be no need to design the cart/wagon to carry more than the intended animal is capable of haul

 

[Phoenix90384]

Hiya!

If I was so inclined to need a "balance like this", I'd go to my old stand bye: Cost = Effectiveness.
I'd re-do the Cart and make it the base, with a Cost of 20gp with Weight Limit of 200lb. Now, just extrapolate.
Need to carry 1,000 pounds? Ok, that will be 100gp for a "reinforced wagon". Want that 1,500 pounds? Ok, you can get one custom made from Gunter Steelwood, the Gnome Cartwright; for 150gp and it will take 3 weeks to make. What's that? You want something MASSIVE, to carry 6,000lb of dead dragon and treasure? Ok, you're gonna need some Cracker-Jack cartwright's, who will need expensive and rare materials for the construction; 600gp's and 3 months.
..
How did I figure the time needed to craft? I made it up.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Not to entirely burst your bubble, but a cart with a capacity of only 200 pounds would be entirely useless, as you can carry more than that with just about any draft animal listed in the book. I think you're confused the listed weight or the cart or wagon with the carrying capacity of the vehicle. For your consideration on that line, your base cart wouldn't be able to carry an average adult human(140-200 pounds) and their gear, especially if they person was the sort to wear heavy armor(40-65 pounds), large weapons and a shield.