Need some help here. DM wackiness in action

[JacktheRabbit]

Ok, here is the situation.

Cannister of alchemist fire gets dropped on ground and burst into flames.

Cleric immediatly casts create water and drops 4 gallons of water on fire. My thinking was it would smother the fire of oxygen and kill it instantly. DM rules that the water only causes the alchemist fire to spread since burning oil is not put out by water.

Fine. I do the next best thing. I cast Purify Food and Water on the water I just created. This should then remove all the alchemist fire from the water and make it drinkable. The DM rules that water and oil do not mix so the Purify Food and Water does nothing at all to the burning water oil mess.

So who was right? Was he being fair or was he being obscene in avoiding my solutions so that his plot device of burning down the building will happen?

I can live with either but I want to know now if this is the first hint that my DM's plot devices are more important than innovative players.

 

[Crothian]

I think the purify food and water would work. Oily water is contaminated water no matter if they mix or not. Pouring water on it orginally would have done nothing as he ruled. I've seen water poured on a grease fire (we did it in scouts) and it is surprising how little it does.

However, of course the DM is allowed to rule any way he wants. Rulings are hard when done on the fly.

 

[Forrester]

Your DM sounds like a bit of a plot-nazi.

I can see the water not putting out the fire, but making it SPREAD seems like a stretch. Also, everything next to the fire would be drenched . . . and, thus, not catch fire, or catch fire so slowly you'd have a chance to stamp it out.

In other words, I have a tough time seeing how one lousy flask of alchemist's fire can burn a building down when there are people right there to stop it.

I wouldn't have let the Purify Food & Water trick work, though. It's a damn cantrip -- it shouldn't allow you to remove whatever element you want from a body of water.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Really?

Purify Food and Drink
Universal
Level: Clr 0, Drd 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 10 ft.
Target: 1 cu. ft./level of contaminated food and water
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
This spell makes spoiled, rotten, poisonous, or otherwise contaminated food and water pure and suitable for eating and
drinking. This spell does not prevent subsequent natural decay or spoilage. Unholy water and similar food and drink of
significance is spoiled by purify food and drink, but the spell has no effect on creatures of any type nor upon magic potions.
Note: Water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon. One cubic foot of water contains roughly 8 gallons and weighs about 60
pounds.

Per the spell it will remove ANY poison (nonmagical would be an unspoken assumption here) from food or water. That is a hell of a lot more powerful than removing some oil.

BTW, the reason the whole house burned down is because this happened in a basement full of old furniture.

 

[radferth]

I would agree with the DM on this one. I have seen water poured on an oil fire, and it does cause it to spread if there is enough oil. As for the purify food & drink, I am sure most DMs would rule that making the water safe to drink would not include getting rid of stuff floating on top of the water, although it is sure worth a try. Alchemist fire is anologous to historical Greek fire, which was extremely hard to put out by all accounts.

 

[Morose]

I would have agreed with his ruling on those spells. Though having the fire spread due to the water is a real stretch. If I was him, I would also have taken into consideration the fact that the area was now wet and less likely to catch fire, but it sounds like his plot was based on this building going down. As such, no matter what you wouldn't have been able to abate the flames, and sometimes that's ok. A little bit of railroading here or there can sometimes help a game along. It's all situational.

Edit: Oh and if it was me, I definitely would have given you points for creative use of the spells. Good thinking even if they didn't save the day.

 

[Umbran]

Well, the Purify trick has a number of loopholes - first, if the Fire is not mixed with the water (but is instead floating on top), the spell may not function as you'd wish. Imagine the wtare were in a contained basin instead - you could then easily i agine purifying the water but leaving a sheen of oil on top.

Second, the Purify trick will only work if Alchemist's Fire is toxic. If you can use the stuff as salad dressing, the spell won't help. The fact that it is on fire isn't "contamination".

Mind you, the PHB describes Alchenmist's fire as "a sticky, adhesive substance". That doesn't sound like normal oil. As written, the stuff should stick to the floor, not float on the water. It's a bit of a goof on the DM's part. Such is life.

 

[Zad]

Your solutions were quick, and clever.

But I'd go with the DM on this one.

 

[Christian]

Second, the Purify trick will only work if Alchemist's Fire is toxic. If you can use the stuff as salad dressing, the spell won't help.

OK, I know I'm not advancing the discussion here, but ... HA-HA-HA-HA!

"I'll have the Waldorf Salad Flambe, please."
"May I suggest the Chateau d'Asbestos with that, monsieur?"

 

[kreynolds]

Cleric immediatly casts create water and drops 4 gallons of water on fire. My thinking was it would smother the fire of oxygen and kill it instantly. DM rules that the water only causes the alchemist fire to spread since burning oil is not put out by water.

Here's a quick and easy answer for ya. I woulda let the water put the fire out. Why? Easy. It's Alchemists Fire for god's sake. Not napalm. If it was as nasty as napalm, it wouldn't deal a meager 1d4 points of damage. Also, I've seen an oil based fire in action (oil and gasoline mix), and if it's not very big, a couple of gallons of water dropped on it quickly will do the trick. Besides, if you cast Create Water within one round of the alchemists fire being dropped, it won't have had time to spread anyways, so at the most, we're talking about a 5 foot diameter fire (that isn't fueled by napalm!) and 5 gallons should do just fine.

That's just me though.