Need Some Optimization Advice for My Hybrid

[Felon]

Based on one of my beloved minis, I decided to build a Judge-Dredd type of character, a half-orc wielding a morenkrad (although he refers to it as a greatgavel). My DM was surprised at how "uncheesy" it was, which made me think that I might have missed a few beats. I figured I'd submit it here and trawl for some suggestions.

I don't want to alter the class or race or lose the mordenkrad, but beyond that his feats, powers, magic items, and PP are all on the table. I really like him as-is, although his to-hit bonuses are still at that 50/50 hitting mark, and if he can be made stronger, so be it.

Reckoner Grahl, level 11
Half-Orc, Barbarian|Paladin, Ancestral Weapon
Hybrid Paladin: Hybrid Paladin Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Paladin Armor Proficiency

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 21, Con 14, Dex 16, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 16.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 14.


AC: 29 Fort: 23 Reflex: 21 Will: 20
HP: 89 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 25

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +12, Intimidate +15, Athletics +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Arcana +5, Bluff +8, Diplomacy +8, Dungeoneering +6, Heal +6, History +5, Insight +6, Nature +6, Perception +6, Religion +5, Stealth +6, Streetwise +8, Thievery +6

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Mordenkrad)
Level 4: Skill Power
Level 6: Weapon Expertise (Hammer)
Level 8: Toughness (retrained to Armor Specialization (Plate) at Level 11)
Level 10: Thirst for Battle
Level 11: Eyes in the Back of Your Head

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Howling Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Valiant Strike
Skill Power: Reactive Surge
Hybrid encounter 1: Vault the Fallen
Hybrid daily 1: Blood of the Mighty
Hybrid utility 2: Virtue
Hybrid encounter 3: Strength from Valor
Hybrid daily 5: Razor Wind Rage
Hybrid utility 6: Run Rampant
Hybrid encounter 7: Curtain of Steel
Hybrid daily 9: Rage of the Crimson Hurricane
Hybrid utility 10: Valiant Rush

ITEMS
Supremely Vicious Mordenkrad +3, Magic Gith Plate Armor +3, Cloak of Survival +2, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Flaying Gloves (heroic tier), Horned Helm (heroic tier)

 

[mkill]

It's a pretty straightforward build: Charge enemy, smack him till he drops, rinse and repeat. You're tough enough that you can just soak whatever attack the enemy throws at you. Just keep it that way, sometimes simple is best.

One thing I den't get is what you need that high Dex and Cha for. If you're worried about Fort/Ref/Will, get the Paragon Defenses feat.

I'd aim for Hammer Rhythm instead: Shore up that Con to 17 somehow. 11th level is also the time everyone should have weapon focus. Consider dropping a few feats and picking them up later again.

 

[blargney the second]

It looks pretty darn good, Felon. Personally, I'd drop Skill Power for Weapon Focus, then grab Skill Power again at 12th. Getting +2 damage on every attack is significant.

But other than that, I think it'd be great fun to play!

 

[Dice4Hire]

I would get hammer Rhythm as a matter of ht first priority.

I'm not impressed with Armor Spec, plate, as it only gives AC

I find that Untiring Virtue (Divine Power) is a godsend (sic) if you will reach milestones most days. It could double you use of Lay on Hands and such each day at one milestone and triple it at 2.

 

[OpenPalm]

The one thing I don't understand is the need for hybriding to Paladin. It looks like you want a pure striker, since you haven't taken any of the feats that enhance your divine challenge, though you have taken a more defendery PP in Ancestral Weapon. There's actually a nice one for half-orcs only that helps both the challenge and sanction. I would definitely drop dexterity to a starting 8 for more of your pick (Wis/Con.) I don't think Cha helps you much, since you need Thaneborn Presence to really take advantage of it IIRC. Hammer Rhythm is a good idea if you go for more Con. For Paragon Paths, if you stick with Paladin Hybrid, Champion of Order is literally the best-fitting path RP-Wise (He is the Law!) and gives you some awesome defending abilities, including essentially locking down 1 enemy/battle. If you want something more strikery, Kensai or Iron Vanguard (with high Con & Push powers) works well too.

Unfortunately, since Hybrid Pallys can't get Lay on Hands, Untiring Virtue is a worthless feat for them.

 

[jbear]

Your lvl 5 Rage effect is useless to you, as you don't have a rage feature to trigger it, being a hybrid and choosin paladin armour as your hybrid talent. If it's a good burst effect rage you want, well you don't get much better than Rage of the Crimson Hurricanes, man this even makes Monks jealous when it comes to spreading damage!

Personally I agree that having taken paladin armour a high DEX is wasted. you can shore up REF with a feat later on. I'm going to leave it at scale, I don't like penalties to my abilities, but that is an inconsequential detail.

WIS, and hence my racial preference (not to mention regeneration and the tasty damage boost), will make you a crack scout with high perception and give your paladin powers a decent effect. A shifter is visually VERY similar to Half Orcs nowadays as well. I have chosen Holy Strike as my at will and taken the Domain of Luck feat. So 1[w] Radiant Damage + str + wis and crit on 19-20.

Personally I'd take an executioner's axe over a mordenkrad, then take Thunder Hawk Rage at lvl 5 (knock prone as free action) and somehow fit Headsman's Chop into the build (let's say lose hammer rythm): +5 dmg vs prone targets with an axe. Also the lvl 9 rage I have chosen makes all your melee attacks knock prone, and extra damage to prone targets... these two together, jeesh!

And multiclassing into Avenger, apart from making you less of a retard on religious matters despite your humilliating intelligence (which makes sense to your class), gives you two rounds of double attack dice rolls. That can be a MASSIVE advantage!!! Twice the chance to crit... twice the chance to land your daily or encounter powers, every single encounter!!!
Mighty Challenge makes your Divine Challenge do decent damage when ignored as opposed to dealing 0 dmg... might need to check that dealing 0 dmg is still dealing dmg with your dm. I'd be bummed if he disallowed it after investing a feat to make your challenge work properly.

I would be loathe to choose any other lvl 2 utility over Bless Weapon. Seriously. +1 ATQ, +1d6 Radiant damge to ALL your attacks! The entire encounter! And against undead who are vulnerable to radiant it is crit city! I don't think anything can rival it.

Brutal Slam and Divine Pursuit give you 2 great encounter powers that allow you both to isolate an enemy or make the most of other pcs hazardous zones or terrain features with some nice push effects.

Benediction lets you play leader healing 1/encounter. Which kind of makes up a little for the absence of lay on hands!

Change Backgroud if you want, if it's too 'cheesy' for your DM, only 4 HP difference anyway.
Take Forest and bump perception by +2.

Bear Warrior (very resilient! And PUSH 6 on a crit!!! ) or Moonstalker (you knock prone ALOT potentially to really take advantage of the extra damage) are solid PPs. I don't like that Ancestral Warrior keys off CHA...

I think the build is brutal. I'd play it in a heart beat. Check it out, see what you think (and keep in mind the executioner's axe! chop chop chop!):

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
The Judge, level 11
Longtooth Shifter, Barbarian|Paladin
Hybrid Paladin: Hybrid Paladin Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Background: Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 22, Con 18, Dex 11, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 11.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 15, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 10.

AC: 27 Fort: 24 Reflex: 18 Will: 20
HP: 97 Surges: 13 Surge Value: 24
TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +16, Perception +13, Athletics +18, Religion +9
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +7, Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +8, Heal +8, History +4, Insight +8, Intimidate +5, Nature +8, Stealth +5, Streetwise +5, Thievery +5
FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Mordenkrad)
Level 4: Mighty Challenge
Level 6: Power of Luck
Level 8: Disciple of Divine Wrath
Level 10: Weapon Expertise (Hammer)
Level 11: Hammer Rhythm
POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Holy Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Howling Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Divine Pursuit
Hybrid daily 1: Blood of the Mighty
Hybrid utility 2: Bless Weapon
Hybrid encounter 3: Brutal Slam
Hybrid daily 5: Rage of the Crimson Hurricane
Hybrid utility 6: Run Rampant
Hybrid encounter 7: Curtain of Steel
Hybrid daily 9: Oak Hammer Rage
Hybrid utility 10: Benediction
ITEMS
Horned Helm (heroic tier), Magic Mordenkrad +3, Magic Wyvernscale Armor +3, Cape of the Mountebank +2, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Giantkind Gloves (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

 

[Felon]

One thing I den't get is what you need that high Dex and Cha for. If you're worried about Fort/Ref/Will, get the Paragon Defenses feat.

I would definitely drop dexterity to a starting 8 for more of your pick

My starting ability scores are probably not what you guys are used to. The array is 16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10. About the only ability this class really uses heavily is Str. Cha gets used by a few powers (the Ancestral Weapon PP gets to add Cha to his healing surge value, for instance), so I probably get as much mileage out of it as I would boosting Con (which none of my current power selections use).

I'd aim for Hammer Rhythm instead: Shore up that Con to 17 somehow. 11th level is also the time everyone should have weapon focus. Consider dropping a few feats and picking them up later again.

I would get hammer Rhythm as a matter of ht first priority.

I'm not impressed with Armor Spec, plate, as it only gives AC

I find that Untiring Virtue (Divine Power) is a godsend (sic) if you will reach milestones most days. It could double you use of Lay on Hands and such each day at one milestone and triple it at 2.

Hammer Rhythm is a good idea if you go for more Con.

I looked at Hammer Rhythym. Doing 3 damage on a miss isn't bad--I'm glad you guys pointed it out to me--but I'm not sure I'd consider it a must-have. Armor Specialization seems better.

The one thing I don't understand is the need for hybriding to Paladin. It looks like you want a pure striker, since you haven't taken any of the feats that enhance your divine challenge, though you have taken a more defendery PP in Ancestral Weapon. There's actually a nice one for half-orcs only that helps both the challenge and sanction.

Champion of Order is literally the best-fitting path RP-Wise (He is the Law!) and gives you some awesome defending abilities, including essentially locking down 1 enemy/battle. If you want something more strikery, Kensai or Iron Vanguard (with high Con & Push powers) works well too.

First and foremost, hybriding into paladin gets me into plate with one feat. I lose barb agility, feral might, and rage strike, which aren't crappy by any means, but don't really break me up none neither.

In addition to superior AC, I get plenty of stuff that's fine for a striker. For a non-striker, pallys aren't bad at all when it comes to whupping butt. I got Blood of the Mighty, a 1st-level daily that does [4W], which I wouldn't actually get from the barb even with rage strike, and it's even reliable. I got Strength from Valor, a close burst 1 encounter that generates 5 temp HP for every target I hit, and it targets a NAD (Fort). And I got an at-will that gives me much-need bonuses to hit when I'm surrounded by enemies--which I plan to be.

In addition to all of that, I was able to supplant the rather lackluster barb utilities with a couple of nifty pally utils; Valiant Rush helps me clsoe without charging, and Virtue generates a caboodle of temp HP (iin combination with the aforementioned Ancestral Weapon healing surge boost, it's worth pushing out in the first round).

Champion of Order was a definite contenderl. I suppose I was rather seduced by the Ancestral Weapon's 2[W] close burst 2(!) encounter power.

Weapon Focus is on the list of stuff to get, but the two things I'm really looking for are ways to hit better and ways to get distant enemies to me or vice-versa.

 

[Felon]

Your lvl 5 Rage effect is useless to you, as you don't have a rage feature to trigger it, being a hybrid and choosin paladin armour as your hybrid talent.

The hybrid barbarian does in fact get the rampage class feature. And the Razor Wind Rage even keys off of Dex. There are probably better ones to pick nonetheless, but I'm leery of all the rages that only work on opponents adjacent at the start of my turn. Too easy for them to just shift away.

Personally I'd take an executioner's axe over a mordenkrad, then take Thunder Hawk Rage at lvl 5 (knock prone as free action) and somehow fit Headsman's Chop into the build (let's say lose hammer rythm): +5 dmg vs prone targets with an axe. Also the lvl 9 rage I have chosen makes all your melee attacks knock prone, and extra damage to prone targets... these two together, jeesh!

Not a bad idea, but I pick my characters based off of minis that I like, and this one has a big honkin' hammer (see below)! It would be nice to have a feat that capitalizes on it, but it's not mandatory.

And multiclassing into Avenger, apart from making you less of a retard on religious matters despite your humilliating intelligence (which makes sense to your class), gives you two rounds of double attack dice rolls. That can be a MASSIVE advantage!!! Twice the chance to crit... twice the chance to land your daily or encounter powers, every single encounter!!!
Mighty Challenge makes your Divine Challenge do decent damage when ignored as opposed to dealing 0 dmg... might need to check that dealing 0 dmg is still dealing dmg with your dm. I'd be bummed if he disallowed it after investing a feat to make your challenge work properly.I would be loathe to choose any other lvl 2 utility over Bless Weapon. Seriously. +1 ATQ, +1d6 Radiant damge to ALL your attacks! The entire encounter! And against undead who are vulnerable to radiant it is crit city! I don't think anything can rival it.

My hybrid divine challenge does 5 damage (2 + Cha). The avenger multiclass is a fantastic idea, as is mighty challenge.

Bless weapon is tempting. But a bucket of tempies is also tempting. I may squash Valiant Rush for it.

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Felon]

Pic didn't attach. Lemme try again:

 

[jbear]

Ok just reread the hybrid barbarian rampage feature. And of course you are correct, it does exist. It keys off you landing a critical hit. Which makes Holy Strike and the Luck domain even more interesting for you. Your Build as is with tweaks, let's say.

Mini factor is important and valid. I wouldn't elimnae a shifter however.. do we really have a clear mental image of the visual difference between a half orc and a shifter? Seriously? Initiative is great. I'm not dissing your build. At all. I thought you just wanted to hear a few options to pimp it out a bit.

I am in the same camp as you in so far as not seeing the superiority of Hammer rythm. I put it in the build upon public opinion, nothing more... well, apart from a lack of time to properly study other paragon options (never reached nor played in that league yet, snif snif... level 6, over half way!!!!) I think i'd build towards a bonus for hitting as opposed to missing build. and crits, well even better. The double roll plus high crit weapon + pimped holy strike lean towards that big time. I'd consider other feats upon reaching paragon level... pity about the mini eliminating the possibility of an axe, but fair game. Any chance of your DM reflavouring a mordenkrad with the mechanics of an executioner's axe. I mean if the inspiration is merely the aspect of a mini... a minor issue at best?

I'm sorry you lost me on the 'leery of powers that rely on enemies being adjacent to ou at the start of your turn' bit. You're going to have to tell me which ones you mean. As far as I know none of the powers I have posted rely on such a thing. If you knock someone prone and they decide to stand up and shift away forgoing their attack, well that means youre defending like a beast! But nonetheless, none of the afore metioned powers require enemies adjacent to you at the start of your turn. enemies can shift away, sure, but when your turn comes you can shift next to them and nothing has changed. having to rely on scoring a critical to key the effect of you daily power is very optimistic even with holy strike, avenger MC and luck domain. Needless to say your build as is.

I know I'm probably stating the obvious, but the regeneration feature of the Longtooth Shifter makes you far more resilient than a Half Orc and most other races in general. As soon as you are bloodied 2 HP back every turn. Plus you will have more HP via my stat distribution. Virtue is great insofar as it is per encounter, minor action pro active boost to HP. Does it rival Bless Weapon? Depends greatly on how ofen your DM allows you to rest fully and the make up of the rest of your group. No leader? I'll back you up on virtue all the way (even it it tears my soul to leave Bless Weapon behind). Leader in the house? Let him/her do their jobs. meanwhile assure that you can distract your enemy away from your leader et als (squishies) and hurry your enemies to their death as swiftly and assuredly as possible. Which is basically spelt B-L-E-S-S-W-E-A-P-O-N.

Great, so if your challenge does 2 + car dmg then youre obviously beginning your campaign at paragon level, avoiding the question of 0 dmg dealt dealing dmg and keying off the bonus from mighty challenge. making it very viable indeed.

Quashing Valiant Rush and dismissing Benediction is a valid solution. If you can't make it to a valid location with a move action and then a charge (taking into account your +2 movement twice a day for an entire encounter with Howling Strike when you charge whilst raging... well that is a total of 12 squares ... 60 feet. That's either a huge room or your constantly fighting on a plane. And movement + charge is 10 squares (+2 when raging but limited to howling strike) vs move and charge which is 10 squares ... ok so you are limited to howling Strike. But that is why you took howling strike. that's why it's awesome. Move + move + atk... is what you ain with valiant rush 1/encounter... except you already do that at will. So Valiant rush is redundant. fine, you can valiant rush and then charge and move 15 ... that's only three more than you can reach when doing the same raging (at least 2/day)... ditch it! No questions asked!

Again though, your original buid as is is totally competent. Can you hit even harder. Yes. But the difference is situational and it doesn't fit the mini you have selected. So who cares? You're going to be kick arse either way!!!