D&D General Need wheat. Too dangerous. (worldbuilding)

[Chaosmancer]

magic combined with agriculture is an interesting idea. In the real medieval times, the vast majority of the people were involved in agriculture, something like 80% IIRC. A lot of it was just grunt work; pre-mechanization agriculture is really manpower intensive. Sowing, weeding, watering, harvesting, hauling it off to the mill, milling, hauling it off to the baker, baking, hauling it off to the markets, etc. You have to wonder just how much magic could speed up the process, and how common it would be...

I've always loved the idea of "small magics" that people have talked about. Like, let's say that there is a minor spell that is in song form, sing the song and you can lift 10 lbs more than usual, a very minor strength buff basically. This would be relatively worthless...

Until you realize that this could mean that every time you "haul" the resources to be processed, you are carrying more, speeding up the processes, it could make 7 round trips take only 6, which doesn't sound like much but will have a big impact when it applies to 6 processes, taking it from 42 trips to 36.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Had to reread the 1st post to make sure what this thread was actually about, primarily it's about monsters destroying the fields. I don't think it is mentioned in 5e, but reading the section on dominions in the BECMI rules cyclopedia pretty much answers it by having three categories for lands, civilised, borderlands, and wilderness.

The central part of a well settled kingdom would be civilised, incidents of rampaging monsters are likely few and far between. Borderlands, those territories on the periphery of the kingdom might have a harder time of it, since they border the wilderness which is where the rampaging monsters all come in from. It would probably depend on what monsters are rampaging. A wyvern or manicure probably aren't going to do much damage to the fields, though livestock might be carried off. Orcs coming down to attack the town might burn the fields which would be a problem requiring the import of grain and the local baron or count might also have to send troops to stop the orc raiders. Meanwhile, the farmers in the central part of the kingdom might only have to deal with occasional bandits and pests but are otherwise largely left alone.

You know, I keep seeing this statement that certain monsters wouldn't damage fields, and I want to put that at a "maybe?"

Because, sure a Wyvern might be more interested in a few sheep instead of field of wheat. But, the sheep might be in the barn, or since they are herd animals the Wyvern might be hesitant to take on a whole flock. Wild Rams aren't trifling things to mess with.

But... what about that single farmer weeding in the middle of a wheat field? That's a good target of opportunity, so the Wyvern flies down and smashes into the farmer... and also flattens and destroys a good portion of the field. I mean, depending on the fight and the time, this could just kill off a chunk of the produce before it is viable.

I'm not saying this is a major concern, but monsters don't have to be targeting the wheat for the wheat to be collateral damage of a monster attack.

 

[cbwjm]

You know, I keep seeing this statement that certain monsters wouldn't damage fields, and I want to put that at a "maybe?"

Because, sure a Wyvern might be more interested in a few sheep instead of field of wheat. But, the sheep might be in the barn, or since they are herd animals the Wyvern might be hesitant to take on a whole flock. Wild Rams aren't trifling things to mess with.

But... what about that single farmer weeding in the middle of a wheat field? That's a good target of opportunity, so the Wyvern flies down and smashes into the farmer... and also flattens and destroys a good portion of the field. I mean, depending on the fight and the time, this could just kill off a chunk of the produce before it is viable.

I'm not saying this is a major concern, but monsters don't have to be targeting the wheat for the wheat to be collateral damage of a monster attack.

Sure, there could be some impact, but I wouldn't see it as a huge impact (unless your the farmer killed by the wyvern). Sure you'll lose part of your crop but it shouldn't be devastating unless there are other factors in play causing a low yield of grain at harvest. Also, these monsters are likely to be hunted down, probably because a farmer has been killed and the people are demanding the local lord do something about it, which leads to adventurers being hired or knights being sent out after it.

The bigger loss in this scenario might not even be the damage to the fields but rather the loss of the farmer, and not just because he's now wyvern chow. Unless there are others that can do the work, something which I don't think you could guarantee, the entire season's worth of grain might be lost.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Sure, there could be some impact, but I wouldn't see it as a huge impact (unless your the farmer killed by the wyvern). Sure you'll lose part of your crop but it shouldn't be devastating unless there are other factors in play causing a low yield of grain at harvest. Also, these monsters are likely to be hunted down, probably because a farmer has been killed and the people are demanding the local lord do something about it, which leads to adventurers being hired or knights being sent out after it.

The bigger loss in this scenario might not even be the damage to the fields but rather the loss of the farmer, and not just because he's now wyvern chow. Unless there are others that can do the work, something which I don't think you could guarantee, the entire season's worth of grain might be lost.

In the old days the loss of a single farmer never risked the whole crop. The whole process of farming was so labour intensive and the risks of accidental death (even with out D&D type exotica) were so high that there would be people around. Also the harvest was so important that in the event of a shortage of the regular farmers and labourers then whoever was available would be drafted in to help. It was pretty much bring the harvest in or everybody starves.

 

[Hussar]

Heh, maybe we could avoid this whole town/village thing if we just call them Oppidum

But, really, hillforts and oppidum were common all across Europe once upon a time and, IMO, probably represent the standard D&D settlement far more than what we generally see in the books:

As far as wyverns go, maybe they are scared away by the giant bees. Cultivating giant insect nests might be a really good deterrent for keeping out a lot of the less persistent predators. Ankhegs are known for making soil grow better and could certainly be worked around. Sure, it might cost you some sheep or whatnot to keep them away from the settlement, but, again, it's potentially possible.

Really, IMO, the bigger issue here is that D&D often wants to keep it's settlements as close to medieval Europe (by and large) as possible without looking too closely into the implications of the game world itself because, frankly, that's too much work for too little reward.

 

[Ancalagon]

In my last campaign, I leaned hard into the "last bastions of civilization" concept. The world was overrun by monsters, excepting 10 powerful city-states. Each city-state had a magical shield that protected the city AND ALL ENVIRONS WITHIN TWO DAYS' WALK. (Each city's shield was powered by something different; Godshome was powered by faith, Magisteria was powered by a siphon from the students and faculty at The Academy, Forgekeep tapped the local volcano, etc.) That provided each city with plenty of safe arable land for food. (The shields were "weakness-permeable", meaning the stronger the attacker, the stronger the shield; kobolds and goblins could get in, but giants and demons could not. Perfect fodder for militia or trainee adventurers.)

Out in the "wilderness", hidden villages still existed, but they were dependent on camouflage - or ongoing bribery - to survive. Some had a ranger or druid supporting them, providing spike growth or martial deterrents to the occasional foe; some of those villages had ties to The Verdant Order, a benevolent (?) druidic organization that felt civilization and nature had finally found an achievable balance, and thus supported both the cities and the hidden villages. (But opposed the creation of new cities, vehemently!)

this is preeeety nice. The shields working not so well against "near human" like goblins is quite plausible.

 

[Ancalagon]

Had to reread the 1st post to make sure what this thread was actually about, primarily it's about monsters destroying the fields. I don't think it is mentioned in 5e, but reading the section on dominions in the BECMI rules cyclopedia pretty much answers it by having three categories for lands, civilised, borderlands, and wilderness.

The central part of a well settled kingdom would be civilised, incidents of rampaging monsters are likely few and far between. Borderlands, those territories on the periphery of the kingdom might have a harder time of it, since they border the wilderness which is where the rampaging monsters all come in from. It would probably depend on what monsters are rampaging. A wyvern or manicure probably aren't going to do much damage to the fields, though livestock might be carried off. Orcs coming down to attack the town might burn the fields which would be a problem requiring the import of grain and the local baron or count might also have to send troops to stop the orc raiders. Meanwhile, the farmers in the central part of the kingdom might only have to deal with occasional bandits and pests but are otherwise largely left alone.

BECMI is sometimes a bit cliche, and sometimes wrong, but it's still a very valuable resources - a useful baseline, if you will.

 

[Ancalagon]

I've always loved the idea of "small magics" that people have talked about. Like, let's say that there is a minor spell that is in song form, sing the song and you can lift 10 lbs more than usual, a very minor strength buff basically. This would be relatively worthless...

Until you realize that this could mean that every time you "haul" the resources to be processed, you are carrying more, speeding up the processes, it could make 7 round trips take only 6, which doesn't sound like much but will have a big impact when it applies to 6 processes, taking it from 42 trips to 36.

I find it sometimes interesting to think about all the "pure utility" spells that are almost hidden amongst all the war magic in the PHB.

Imagine if you were a local hedge mage in a peasant village (you have the magic adept feat). You know unseen servant (or perhaps summon familiar?), mending and move earth. The locals would adore you.

 

[Hussar]

Having seen just how much you can do with Move Earth, I can totally see that. Imagine being able to shift about 5 tons of earth (a 5 foot cube) every 6 seconds. :wow:

 

[Myth Master]

While sometimes burning fields was a thing in times of war, monsters aren't likely to actually try to damage crops - the vulnerable bits are the people.

So, in terms of efficiency - a watch tower, standing militia, and regular patrols may be more expensive than a simple set of Sending Stones to alert the local Sheriff, or whatnot.

Unfortunately, the famers, their wives and family = MEAT, and the grain fields surrounding the village are where they spend most of their time in the warmer months, unless they are out foraging farther afield.
The fields of grain are completely irrelevant to the monsters who want to chow down on the villagers, except in so far as later in the summer, the crops are tall enough to provide some cover for them to bushwhack the villagers and have themselves a feast.
Unfortunately, the lords and knights and their troops don't give a crap about anything but getting at and killing their rivals when at war, also. It is the free peasantry and the landbound/serf classes who suffered most and worst. Check out what the English did on chevauchee during the 100 Years War. Destroying crops was part of the point of those tactics.