Nerfed Wildshape?

[kenjib]

In D&D 3+ edition design, rules take precedent over flavor almost every time.

 

[ForceUser]

Plant Wild Shape looks weak, right now.

Since you retain your type, all of your cool plant type abilities (such as the ones you mentioned) don't apply to you.

I'll have to check my MM. That seems absurd. One of the perks of wild shaping into an elemental in 3.0 is gaining those benefits.

 

[Tsyr]

Uh...

Gaining spot and listen as class skills, as well as ride, doesn't back up this statement to me.

Did I say I didn't approve of anything?

As far as I can tell, people thought the 3.0 Druid was weak (even though I didn't), and so beefed him up, combat wise. This is the same thing they did with the bard and ranger.

You're right. That doesn't, however, excuse it, in my eyes.

I'm just confused. Besides not getting scent and blindsight, how is the Druid becoming less of the master of the wild?

Another instance is the changes to Call Lightning. Call lightning used to be cool and flavourful... Calling a bolt of lightning down from the stormy sky to smite your enemies.

Now it's just an attack spell.

 

[youspoonybard]

I'll have to check my MM. That seems absurd. One of the perks of wild shaping into an elemental in 3.0 is gaining those benefits.

Yes, because you gain all special qualities (including the elemental one). You get EX, SU and SP abilities as well.

Since they don't have that line for Plant Wild Shape...

This is what I'm guessing from the 3.0 wildshape rules, however. I don't have access to 3.5 polymorph.

It's like the debate I had with the player who was an Air Elemental Savant...

 

[youspoonybard]

It doesn't excuse it to me, either, but that's how it goes.

Call Lightning was a flavorful spell, but it was almost useless. I, as a DM, used it against my players, but there are so few opportunities to use it as a player. Personally, I'm glad that Wizards tried to make it so that spells were viable.

Compare Call Lightning to another popular 3rd level spell, Fireball. Fireball does flat out damage. Call Lightning slowly picks off people round after round. It's just faster than the 3.0 version, but still very flavorful and different to me.

 

[Apok]

Another instance is the changes to Call Lightning. Call lightning used to be cool and flavourful...

...and utterly useless in all but the rarest of situations. Great for NPC's, but definitely not for your typical PC.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Until you add in the Shaper from Masters of the Wild, there's little of the EX senses that really needed to be worried about. Honestly, about 7th level, the biggest benefit to the druid was having a kind of pseudo-uncanny dodge when in certain forms (or with the Blindsight feat, which I think has just been flavored out of existence since the justification was you had to be able to wildshape into a dire bat and then you figured out how to keep that quality when you were in your normal form). The forms with blindsight are pretty rotten combat forms, though.

It's looking to me like the new wildshape will cut down on the number of forms people use. I don't really like that. I think it would have made more sense to turn regeneration, fast healing and the like to supernatural abilities.

 

[Stalker0]

If I recall though, the new wildshape will give you some of the natural abilities of the new form.

So you get lowlight, that's a natural ability of all animals. Whether some of the other abilities got moved for ex to natural, we will have to see.

 

[Sejs]

Not me. Plant creatures aren't subject to critical hits, mind-affecting spells, or death from massive damage.

Unless it's been changed for 3.5 - when you change shape, you do not change type. Which means you don't get that type's immunities. I personally think that you -should- change type (Uh.. Bill? I just crit on this ooze.. something's not right here.) - but that's a different discussion.

Hell, a clever 3.5 druid can cast the new call lightning, wild shape into a shambling mound, and zap himself with electricity to heal during combat. Some juicy possibilities there.

Not if Wildshape doesn't grant EX abilities - Electricity Immunity and the con-boost it gives Mounds is extraordinary.

Plus, dire animals are generally cooler than normal ones, and I for one can't wait to wild shape into a dire lion at 8th level. A freaking dire lion! Rawr! And imagine this: 3.5 druid is a dire bear - he improved grabs opponent, pins him.

An Ex ability, so he doesn't get it.

Shapeshifts into a dire constrictor with no need for a Concentration check. Squeezes the Charmin' until its eyes pop out.

and likewise, Constrict is Ex also - so he doesn't get that either.

If you get no Ex abilities, then a druid gets no rake, no pounce, no scent, no improved grab, no trample, no blindsight, no sprint, no ink cloud, no jet, no constrict, no poison, no attach, no trip, no swallow whole.



Frankly, they should put a tag [Natural] onto abilities so you know which ones you get when you Polymorph, Shapeshift, Alternate Form, or Wildshape into that creature. Dog: Scent [Ex, Natural].

 

[youspoonybard]

Look in the MM.

There is a line for Special Attacks, and a line for Special Qualities.

You GET special attacks, like improved grab, and the like. You don't get special qualities.

It's not that you don't get Ex abilities, you just don't get ALL Ex abilities.