Nerfing the Characters

[doghead]

Cos I can, and the players need to know this and understand it. And cos I love that word. Nerf.

But seriously, there are a number of reasons. I like low level games. I've read some threads on high level characters/parties/games and it sounds like fun, but its not my cup of tea really. I think that when a player begins to see a troll as an XP gimmie, the character is too much.

Anyway, here's the idea. It just came to me as I was , .. er well, it just came to me. I don't have alot of D&D experience, so I was wondering if I have overlooked something or if the "balance" is out. I am curious as to whether there are "systematic" problems, rather than "conceptual" ones (Er, does that make any sense.), and whether the class adjustments are reasonable.

I do realise that a lot of people will not like it. That's cool, you won't have to play it, but to save you having to waste your time saying it:

Man, that sucks. I don't want to play a commoner.

OK. Done, and no hard feelings here. If that is the universal responce from my players, I wouldn't do it. But actually, I think that they will find it interesting.

Characters have to take their 1st level as an NPC class. However, as they are not that balanced, it works like this. The player selects their target class and rolls d6. To get the class of their choice they have to exceed the DC. If they fail, they can reroll as many times as they wish, with a cumulative -1 penalty. Adept (5+), Aristocrat (6+), Commoner (auto), Expert (4+) Warrior (5+). If they fail all rolls they start as a Commoner1

Adept: Fine as is?

Aristocrat: May roll to improve their status. To be of a good family requires (+5). Aristocrats from a good family may take 3 masterwork or 1 +1 weapon/armour item at normal price. Failure: you are from a disgraced family.

Commoner: These guys really suck. Anyone selecting commoner gets a bonus feat in addition to the 1st level feat. They may also may roll (5+) to get an additional feat. If they are successful, they get another roll (6+) [max: 3 bonus feats].

Expert: Fine as is?

Warrior: Fine as is?

Entering a PC class. This should be a bit more challenging that just saying "I wanna be a fighter/cleric/etc." Just not sure how to do it.

 

[hong]

Sigh.

1) You want the House Rules board, if you're thinking of changing things like this.

2) Characters seeing monsters as XP troves is a problem with either your players, or with D&D itself, depending on your point of view. It has nothing to do with high or low level.

3) Try getting a few sessions under your belt before changing things around.

 

[Darklone]

Right houserules. I suggest to try the following similar to what I like to do:
- Every player starts as a NPC class as mentioned above with minor changes. (Aristocrat gets Divine Protection from Kalamars Players Guide, Warrior get's equipment, Commoner is dropped...)
- Everyone gets and extra feat, feats are granted every odd and ability increases every even level.
- Abilities are rolled with 3d6. Everyone rolls two characters and chooses one.
- Every time you gain a level, you lose the XPs needed for this level... this will make advancement A LOT slower.

 

[doghead]

Sigh.

Sorry.

1) Sorry again.

2) Ah, not really. At say, 2nd level, the troll is way scary. At 10th, its not. I just think trolls should always be scary and it should be almost impossible for someone to get to the point where they are not.

3) Done that, that why i'm doing this.

Every time you gain a level, you lose the XPs needed for this level... this will make advancement A LOT slower.

It would indeed. And simple to impliment.

 

[Darklone]

Another thing: Aristocrats got the Inheritance feat IMC... +200 gp at first level or some family heirloom.

Wizards had to be either adept or Expert (shaman pupil or the typical wizards apprentice).

Paladin is a prestige class...

Ah well. Need more ?

 

[doghead]

Paladin as a PrC make sense. Was aristocrat a requirement?

Inheritance is not an SRD feat, unfortunately.

I'll get back to you

 

[Darklone]

Paladin as a PrC make sense. Was aristocrat a requirement?

Inheritance is not an SRD feat, unfortunately.

I'll get back to you

Aristocrat wasn't a requirement, but you had to be knighted and needed some Diplomacy skills and other stuff... proper etiquette.

Inheritance and the abovementioned Divine Protection are both from the Kalamar Players Guide... have a look at the update sheets at the Kenzer & Co homepage for a first glimpse. (PIMPALERT!)

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Guess it all depends on whether the players are likely to enjoy/accept this sort of a character generation system. If they're up for it, then it will certainly be different and lots of fun. If not, then it will be frustrating and probably lead to a mutiny of some sort. [insert cheap pirate joke here ]

I'd be willing to give it a go, as long as I knew the GM and they had a combat lite (tm) style of game.

However, if I sprung this on my players, then they'd throw dice at me, whine and possibly run away... Not their style of DnD at all. I think the random aspect of which class/bonuses they're stuck with would also go down badly.

If I wanted to do something like this, then I'd dust off my old Warhammer FRP game - IMO, far better designed for the sort of game I'd be after.

 

[doghead]

[reflex responce]WHFRP with d12 version of WFB rules rules![/rr]

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

1) enough about that said above

2) Monster being scary depends mostly upon the gaming/GMing style of the group and the way monsters are used. I can attest to the fact that our 14th level characters still feel wary about trolls ( especially one on one - and many other CR6-8 level monsters, too ) if we are not in control of the encounter - and _that_ is all a matter of the GM setting it up. Besides - most monsters being upgradeable through size, equipment and class progression makes things far less "certain" than they would appear from a fast glance at the MM and PHB. And - Xp are dished out according to the "challenge" encountered (aka challenge rating). If the enemy overcome posed no threat, than little to none xp should be earned.....

3) Start playing D+D D20 for some time before you decide on "Nerfing" the players (who will likely resent itm too. Life as a low level sorcerer, wizard or rogue is deadly enough as it is ) - low level "feel" is far more a matter of careful treasure reward choice and the way scenarios are setup for resolution than a questiopn of the system used.

But if you want your characters to have a "real background" do so. - but still this is much more reflected in actual player choices and roleplaying than in being forced into a class - especially if these are as unbalönced towards each other likne the NPC classes.
BTW - while Warhammer FRPG has its strong points, actual player challenge at mid and high levels never seemed one of its better points to me.