Nerfing the Characters

[Norfleet]

I used to run games with a modifed damage system, in which hitpoints only determined whether you died, not whether you ended up losing bodyparts, and improved versions of the defensive options that 3E added: Thus, it was entirely possible to be struck for 16 points of damage, have the specific damage tables consulted and yield "decapitation"...and still live. Admittedly, being decapitated really does put a cramp in your style.

 

[Thomas Hobbes]

Trying this "attachment" thing.

 

[Darklone]

I often hear that low level games are so deadly. I don't agree. IME, high level games with so many high powered spells are much more likely to kill a players at once.

And about goblins being boring... check out Old Ones storyhour. They encountered some gnolls, humans and a few other things, can't say it sounds boring.

 

[S'mon]

1st-level PC class characters are very vulnerable. If you use a slower advancement rate and a different NPC-level distribution from DMG standard, trolls can be a threat throughout the game. Eg if you make a CR=party level encounter worth 100xlevel instead of the standard 300xlevel, advancement is 1/3 as fast. If NPC level distribution is in the 1-10 range rather than 1-20, you immediately get a grittier lower-magic world. You can make 10th the theoretical-maximum level - and pre-3e D&D worlds won't need much altering.

Spellcasters can be limited just by what spells they have access to - eg IMC Clerics & Druids are spontaneous casters from limited spell lists. Arcane casters can be restricted in the spells they can cast - getting rid of just a few staples like invisibility, fly, and fireball makes things much tougher without crippling the casters.

A final suggestion - even if NPC level range is reduced, in a gritty setting it's worth making many minor NPCs tougher than standard 1st level feeblings. If a veteran town guard is a 5th level Warrior and the typical guard a 3rd level Warrior they'll get respect from low-level PCs. 3rd level Warriors will still be shredded by trolls, but they can keep order in town very successfully.

 

[Darklone]

A final suggestion - even if NPC level range is reduced, in a gritty setting it's worth making many minor NPCs tougher than standard 1st level feeblings. If a veteran town guard is a 5th level Warrior and the typical guard a 3rd level Warrior they'll get respect from low-level PCs. 3rd level Warriors will still be shredded by trolls, but they can keep order in town very successfully.

Good point. IMC, normal NPCs range between level 2-6. Officers in armies range about level 8-10. Level 1 is reserved for young heros and monsters.

 

[doghead]

Zad, at a pure gut level, I suspect that you might be right. So I thought I would give it a try and see.

I have decided to give it a go as a PbP game on these boards (as its not an option otherwise at the moment). I do agree that DnD is probably not the best system for this (WHFRP d12 WFB hybrid homebrew!), but its what the people like to play and I don't have access to anything else at the moment. So I am going to have to play it smart and be prepared. But I'm inclined to agree with Darklone, the huge variety of possiblities and powers, and the infernal cleverness (*said with dazed admiration*) of some of the players makes the high level game more unpredictable and deadly.

I realise that eventually the players, despite their lowly beginnings, will advance to a point where the troll is no longer that scary. But anyone familier with PbP games will know that the game is unlikely to go on for that long. I am, as mentioned, very unlikely to change any of the class elements (feats, spells available etc) or the combat system for fear of unleashing a slew of unforsean consequences. I will probably adjust the XP award system to some degree, as this does not change the balance of elements, just the speed of improvement. Both S'mon's and Darklone's suggestion seem fine, but Darklone's slows things down exponentially rather than linearly, which is more in keeping with what I want. I don't want to place a ceiling on levels, because, what do characters do when they get there? (Although I am unlikely to ever have to deal with that problem).

As for the NPCs, interestingly, I have found that using the NPC classes gives me a much greater sence of freedom to use higher levels. I created a Expert7 (hunter/trapper) with all the necessary skills and feats to be a great trapper. He feels just right. I doubt that a Ranger7 would - too powerful to be pottering around the forest setting snares and hunting wolves.

Whew. This has been a great help everyone. Thanks.

the happy (but slightly nervous) head of the dog

 

[S'mon]

I realise that eventually the players, despite their lowly beginnings, will advance to a point where the troll is no longer that scary. But anyone familier with PbP games will know that the game is unlikely to go on for that long. I am, as mentioned, very unlikely to change any of the class elements (feats, spells available etc) or the combat system for fear of unleashing a slew of unforsean consequences. I will probably adjust the XP award system to some degree, as this does not change the balance of elements, just the speed of improvement. Both S'mon's and Darklone's suggestion seem fine, but Darklone's slows things down exponentially rather than linearly, which is more in keeping with what I want. I don't want to place a ceiling on levels, because, what do characters do when they get there? (Although I am unlikely to ever have to deal with that problem).

I've had a lot of experience running & playing D&D & other PBEMs. IME even if a game is successful and goes on a long time, the rate of advancement is so slow that standard 3e XP awards work fine. The only problem I can recall is that because 2nd level characters are vastly tougher than 1st level, and the pace of play is slow, you can have a situation where some PCs are 2nd, some 1st, for a long time, and the 1st levellers will die a lot, putting them further behind.
I wouldn't recommend a hard level cap for PCs; just reducing the level range for NPCs so there aren't any 18th level Fighters or Wizards normally encountered makes a much grittier world. In a typical D&D campaign, 20th is the level cap for normal NPCs, 21+ is Epic. You can make 11+ 'Epic', ie only legendary heroes have attained those heights (eg look at the heroes' levels in 1e Legends & Lore), but the PCs can still aspire to become legendary heroes some day.

 

[Darklone]

IMC, most level 10+ heros were epic... since most campaigns didn't go that far

 

[doghead]

I agree.

OT: The highest 1e character I ever had was a 14th level fighter/magicuser. The DM granted him quasi-deity status, cos thats how high he seemed!

I vaguely remember a 12th level ranger, but I don't think I played him much. The next highest was a 9th level monk - I named him Owen for some reason.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Trying this "attachment" thing.

Let me give it a try... If not, I'll throw it up on my site and post a link...