Neverwinter Nights 2!!!

[Simplicity]

It may be true that nvidia released new drivers, but from my glances at the forum far more nvidia users seem to be complaining that the game is a pig. Wheras my ATI 9800 runs the game surprising smoothly... I wonder if the nvidia cards might just not handle this game as well (even though they do advertise).

I've got two systems at home, both of which I've tried the game on... One is a ATI9800, and one is a nvidia 5500 (can't remember exact lower order number... not low-end at least).
The ATI system is smooth. The nvidia system can't run with all settings low. The nvidia machine also has a slightly slower CPU (3.0 Ghz p4 vs. 3.4 p4). Newest drivers on both.

I ran a multiplayer test. Clicked to move a character on the nvidia machine. Watched the character move ON THE ATI machine almost instantly. 5 seconds later, the character moved on the nvidia machine. The machine across the network was responding to my commands faster than the local one.

 

[Mycanid]

It may be true that nvidia released new drivers, but from my glances at the forum far more nvidia users seem to be complaining that the game is a pig. Wheras my ATI 9800 runs the game surprising smoothly... I wonder if the nvidia cards might just not handle this game as well (even though they do advertise).

I've got two systems at home, both of which I've tried the game on... One is a ATI9800, and one is a nvidia 5500 (can't remember exact lower order number... not low-end at least).
The ATI system is smooth. The nvidia system can't run with all settings low. The nvidia machine also has a slightly slower CPU (3.0 Ghz p4 vs. 3.4 p4). Newest drivers on both.

I ran a multiplayer test. Clicked to move a character on the nvidia machine. Watched the character move ON THE ATI machine almost instantly. 5 seconds later, the character moved on the nvidia machine. The machine across the network was responding to my commands faster than the local one.

Well THATS not a very consoling thing to hear. Hmm. Well, the ATI x1600 is also a good card, from all I hear, and it is comparable in price with everything else that i have seen. Maybe Steel Wind will pop up soon and give some insight or a take on nVidia 7xxx cards with NWN 2.

The nVidia 5500 is a VERY slow card compared to the ATI 9800, but still....

I'm sure things will come up to snuff soon though. That's all the more reason why I wanted to wait a bit until the initial bugs of NWN 2 smoothed themselves out a bit. However I must admit to being grateful to all you folks out there willing to be the ... err ... testers, I guess.

 

[trancejeremy]

Going to BioWare's site was likely not going to work well, anyway, since Obisidian, not BioWare, made the game.

Then you should explain that to Obsidian, because when you click on NWN2 forum on Obsidian's site, it takes you to Bioware forum for NWN2. (Which then takes you to the Atari technical support page, which doesn't have any help for NWN2.)

 

[Steel_Wind]

Ok - here's the current deal on performance.

I'm definitely pushing the edges of my NDA here. So cut me - and Obsidian -some slack here please.

1) Obsidian is aware of all of the issues being discussed here and there is work underway to address them.

2) The leading edge machine issue is something Obsidian is also well familiar with. I brought this up with them specifically today. Answer: Yes. This will be addressed.

3) Major issue: For now - water reflections and refractions are dragging performance down across the GPU board. Turn em off for now, unless you are at the very top end (and even then).

4) There are optomizations in progress which will improve speed for all ranges (in addition to some high end specific stuff underway).

5) Medium term, there is further engine work planned beyond the work already in progess.

Upshot: give it a lil bit of time here folks. There is signinficant performance relief on the way.

 

[takyris]

Then you should explain that to Obsidian, because when you click on NWN2 forum on Obsidian's site, it takes you to Bioware forum for NWN2. (Which then takes you to the Atari technical support page, which doesn't have any help for NWN2.)

Yep. BioWare hosted the forums, by the wishes of both Obsidian and BioWare, in order to help NWN1 fans over to NWN2 smoothly. I'm not arguing that. If you've got technical questions that poking around on a forum might solve (by asking other users or talking with one of the designers who posts there), then the forums are your place to look, and you should go to BioWare's forum area.

However, if you're looking for a non-forum based support page, Obsidian's website is the place to start. (And if they in turn direct you to Atari, who directs you to outer space, well, that's a bummer all over.) Don't expect BioWare to offer support for a product that Obsidian made.

 

[LrdApoc]

Ok - here's the current deal on performance.

I'm definitely pushing the edges of my NDA here. So cut me - and Obsidian -some slack here please.

1) Obsidian is aware of all of the issues being discussed here and there is work underway to address them.

2) The leading edge machine issue is something Obsidian is also well familiar with. I brought this up with them specifically today. Answer: Yes. This will be addressed.

3) Major issue: For now - water reflections and refractions are dragging performance down across the GPU board. Turn em off for now, unless you are at the very top end (and even then).

4) There are optomizations in progress which will improve speed for all ranges (in addition to some high end specific stuff underway).

5) Medium term, there is further engine work planned beyond the work already in progess.

Upshot: give it a lil bit of time here folks. There is signinficant performance relief on the way.

Steel_Wind,

Thanks for the update. I want to make sure you realize that for most of my issues (as one of the vocal minority here) I am enjoying things really well and have a great respect for your willingness to try and clarify some expectations.

Thanks for taking the time and please also pass along that I don't think most of us (unlike a lot on the official boards) are in bash mode - just trying to puzzle it all out and find the best way to run the game.

I'm writing my review tomorrow and it will mention the slowdowns but only informationaly - the rest of the game actually is pretty amazing and has progressed a lot since I first saw it at E3. I really do think it is a great game with a good life if the community embraces it - much like NWN.

 

[trancejeremy]

Yep. BioWare hosted the forums, by the wishes of both Obsidian and BioWare, in order to help NWN1 fans over to NWN2 smoothly. I'm not arguing that. If you've got technical questions that poking around on a forum might solve (by asking other users or talking with one of the designers who posts there), then the forums are your place to look, and you should go to BioWare's forum area.

However, if you're looking for a non-forum based support page, Obsidian's website is the place to start. (And if they in turn direct you to Atari, who directs you to outer space, well, that's a bummer all over.) Don't expect BioWare to offer support for a product that Obsidian made.

In my experience, non-forum based support is generally worthless. Because it generally just says things like "Make sure your drivers are updated", "Make sure to end all background tasks". Maybe months after the game has come out, and all the bugs are ided, the support section will get updated (maybe). But for new games, forums are always the first place to look.

 

[2WS-Steve]

Upshot: give it a lil bit of time here folks. There is signinficant performance relief on the way.

That's good to hear. And I do want to point out that I think NWN2 is terrific on a bunch of levels, and that I did buy it knowing that I'd not get the full show until I did the computer upgrade I was planning for the next couple months.

Which leads me to a related question for the public at large -- I was thinking that I might be able to score a nice computer cheap by purchasing BEFORE Windows Vista hits -- maybe around the holidays. I figure a bunch of places might cut prices since so many people will wait for Vista to come bundled, and companies like to dump inventory before year end. Anyone have any thoughts on that strategy?

 

[Rl'Halsinor]

Going to BioWare's site was likely not going to work well, anyway, since Obisidian, not BioWare, made the game.

Yeah, but the Obsidian forums are there anyway. Tons of stickies and a number of them on hardware/graphics settings as you can imagine. Just click on forums and then go to the Neverwinter Nights 2 forums.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Question: I'm upgrading to a Duo from my old AMD 1800. That means I have to get a whole new mobo and drop my AGP video card. DirectX 10 is just around the corner, I hear, so I want to get the cheapest PCI Express card I can that will run the game and upgrade it later. I just can't figure out what that is, as I've been out of the hardware loop for too long. Anyone have recommendations?

An interesting premise. Looking for a cheap PCI-E card to tide you over until you make a bigger upgrade for Vista?

I don't disagree with the logic. I think it's reasonably sound. But the devil is in the details.

It all boils down to WHEN. When are you planning on getting that DX10 card? I suggest to you that one of the big factors in that answer is "when I have a real use for it".

Vista and Direct X10 games represent a very sharp break with the past. DirectX 10 is a major "reset" of the DX pipeline and there are serious questions of how well the market is going to be able to accommodate it. It is even possible that this "clean break" approach with DX10 could outright fail.

The base requirements for DX 10 is such that there is no going back. If you create your game for DX10 - you don't have a fallback support for DX 9.0c or b hardware. This is a big - nay - massive departure.

In fact, that's a DAMN scary propoosition if you are a developer. You are seriously limiting your potential market if you develop a pure DX10 game (leaving aside parallel hybrid development).

There is also the issue of Vista itself. While I do think that the current installed Windows XP base will migrate to Vista - I think it will be 18 months or so before this reaches critical mass.

Put another way - you won't have a good reason to purchase a DX10 card i.e., to play DX 10 games - for about 18 months or so, maybe as much as 24 months.

18-24 months is long time in computer hardware and gaming. If you were thinking "I'll get a DX10 card in 6 months" then that, I think, is going to lead to a different purchasing strategy then "I'll get a replacement card in 18-24 months".

Best PCIE-E option:

Three weeks ago, I would have recommended the 7900GTO for $253 as the best overall card for you to get. It's essentially a 7900GTX with slightly slower memory - in other words - while not quite bleeding edge, it was leading edge at an awesome price. Best card for the money, bar none.

Problem is - everyone recognized that for being true and they pretty much instantly sold out. You can't find the damn things anywhere. The recommendation was so obvious everybody snapped these up as nVidia dumped these cores and they are GONE.

Solution?

The 7900GT is on sale right now, after rebate, for $199. That's a SIGNIFICANTLY better card than a 7600, which in my view, is a card you do not want. It's got the cachet of a 7xxx series model number, but it is a pale imitation of the 7900 model line. The 7600 is a paper tiger. It's the card you want if you think you are getting a DX10 card in 6-9 months. But I don't think so, I really don't. As explained above, I think you won't have a need for a DX 10 card for quite a while.

The 7900GT is a damned snappy card and at $199 - you'll be pleased with the price and performance now - without having sunk too much $$ in that buying a DX10 card 18-24 months from now will seem to be a waste.

Link for the $199 7900GT at Newegg is here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150195