D&D 4E New 4e Info! GAMA Tradeshow Scoop

[pukunui]

Ugh, no. That was exactly what they did for 2E, where every setting was its own set of planes within the all-encompassing TSRverse. All it achieves is pissing off the fans of each setting ("what do you mean, Vecna is in Ravenloft?").

That was the main thing that put me off Spelljammer. I really didn't like the idea that Krynn, Toril, Athas, and the rest were all just planets in the same universe and you could go from one to the other via magical spaceships ...

I prefer my fantasy worlds to be self-contained units.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Ugh, no. That was exactly what they did for 2E, where every setting was its own set of planes within the all-encompassing TSRverse. All it achieves is pissing off the fans of each setting ("what do you mean, Vecna is in Ravenloft?").

Personally I prefer self-contained cosmologies as well, but it seems lots of people have griped about the concept of each world being it. This could be a way around it.

If they were to do this, I imagine only ordinary beings be allowed through, especially considering gods aren't allowed in Sigil and that be the only route that even gods would have to do so.

Actually you know, one option they could do given the amount of differing views on how Planescape could work, they could create various hooks. Set up a core idea which is self-contained then place various hooks that can be used to draw it into whatever cosmology or setting you wish to place it.

 

[Mouseferatu]

That was the main thing that put me off Spelljammer. I really didn't like the idea that Krynn, Toril, Athas, and the rest were all just planets in the same universe and you could go from one to the other via magical spaceships ...

I prefer my fantasy worlds to be self-contained units.

Yeah, this. I've got about as much interest in Eberron and Faerun being linked as I do in seeing the Doctor's TARDIS appear on CSI, or someone trying to make an official, canonical Star Wars/Spider-man crossover.

Now, I have no problem with the game including optional rules to allow for such things. And I don't mind a Planescape setting that takes place in an "alternate reality" where the worlds are linked. But I do not want to see it as the default assumption or the "baseline reality" of D&D.

 

[hong]

Personally I prefer self-contained cosmologies as well, but it seems lots of people have griped about the concept of each world being it.

Huh?

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Huh?

I have since on various boards, lots of people who have stated they didn't like the idea of Toril being the only world, or anyother setting world. Was giving this as a kind of compromise, even though for me personally rather keep them self-contained.

 

[hong]

Well, I'm sure there's plenty of people out there who want Greyhawk to be supported. Just as there's plenty of people who want Eberron to be supported, Dark Sun to be supported, Birthright to be supported, etc. I'm also sure there's plenty of people who want to see plenty of worlds supported. I haven't really seen anyone wanting all of these worlds to be part of one all-encompassing setting, though.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Well then if the support is smaller then it seemed from where I was, scratch that part of my idea

 

[pukunui]

I have since on various boards, lots of people who have stated they didn't like the idea of Toril being the only world, or anyother setting world. Was giving this as a kind of compromise, even though for me personally rather keep them self-contained.

I don't have a problem with the idea that Toril or Krynn or Athas or whatever is not the "only world in its setting universe". There can be other populated worlds in those campaign settings' universes.

What I personally have a problem with is the idea that the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, the Dark Sun Campaign Setting, etc etc, somehow all exist in the same physical universe (eg. they're all just planets floating around in the same space, perhaps in the same galaxy, perhaps not).

I mean, if you take Dark Sun as an example, a major part of that campaign setting is that the world is somehow cut off from all the other planes of existence. It's isolated. It's dying. It shouldn't have people suddenly gating in from Toril or wherever ... or flying in from outer space.

If you take Ravenloft, on the other hand, part of its concept was that it was its own plane of existence and that connections could be made to other planes, on which existed the other campaign settings ... but it never presupposed that those other campaign settings were all in the same universe. At least, I don't remember it doing so. I could be wrong.


Anyway ... how did we even get on this topic? I also think we appear to be equivocating a bit here. Some of us are talking about support for campaign settings while others are talking about said campaign settings co-existing in a fictional universe. So um yeah ...


Going to bed now.

Cheers,
Jonathan

p.s. Ari - glad you agree with me.

 

[FabioMilitoPagliara]

to me divine power are clearly a try to give the impression that there is another entity helping the divine hero

 

[Zil]

The Afterlife was never important to Planescape, Philosophies on "the way things are" or "the way things should be" was important to Planescape. And the Godsmen believed in reincarnation, which contradicted most of the Great Wheel, while the Dustmen believed that everybody in reality was already in the Afterlife and that life was a delusion, which definitely contradicted the Great Wheel.

I would have to disagree that the 'Afterlife' wasn't important. It certainly was, because the sheer absurdity of it all is what the Athar used as the core of their argument. As they looked around the so-called afterlife from the safe haven of Sigil, they saw so many contradicting things that they started to think there surely is more to life than what the priests are telling us. When the Godsmen and Athar look out and see mortals becoming gods, they interpreted it as "gods are just powerful beings" and (in the case of Godsmen) "we can all evolve to higher states". The Signers would look around and think that this surely must all be part of someone's dream (perhaps they are the one, or perhaps someone else is the dreamer). And so on. I really think you need the cosmoplitan city and the ambiguity of conflicting theologies to give rise to so many philosophers (with clubs).

If you instead set up a single coherent pantheon with no rival contradicting pantheons, and build the planes to match the beliefs of that pantheon, then it will give the upper hand to the priests/theocracies and you won't have the philosophers - they will just be raving heretics that most people will not pay attention to because they can clearly see that the world fits perfectly with what the priests are telling them.

Planescape was about ambiguity. It thrived on uncertainty (even though the different factions were all pretty certain they were right).