New Bullet Points (10/28): Gear and Equipment
- Thread starter jaerdaph
- Start date
ledded
Herder of monkies
starwolf said:
If this is true (and if it is, please point out to me in the book where it says this, I honestly havent heard this except in lame attempts in various forums to cover up mistakes) then why does it not apply to *anything* else?
Does a fully loaded KAC Stoner encumber you a lot less than a greatsword, or does a great sword encumber you almost *twice* as much as the average pump shotgun? Because the weight on most of the guns, while not always accurate, is fairly close. Having picked both up, I'm pretty sure a Remington 12 gauge pump with ammo would encumber me in a comparable manner to an 'average' greatsword, and it weighs around 9 lbs or so, and the shotgun is not designed with counter weighting in mind because it isnt intended to be swung around quickly. Again, in my opinion it's not a mechanic unless it applies to everything. So why are gun weights at least reasonably close in most cases? Oh, that's because a lot of people who play either own or have handled one at some time and therefore a lot quicker to shout out when they are wrong, and it's a pretty easy and quick jump the manufacturers website to get the actual truth right there without even brushing the cheetos out of your lap. Laziness. Excusable laziness, considering what all a game designer has to be responsible for, but laziness nonetheless.
So, while it's a pretty good try, that argument IMO just doesnt hold water (at least, not much for me). Even if it is the truth as stated somewhere by the designers, then it's not even a half-*ss way to model encumberance, so it shouldnt be used at all, and we should just not worry about it in the first place and just use the actual weights of these things if you want to keep it simple. Which is essentially what I do, except when players want to do something unusual like wear a caber or battering ram on their back, or carry a 10' sphere made of styrofoam around (don't ask).
Now, in parting, I'm not trying to get too ranty or lambast these guys, I think they have done an admirable job with most everything that they do... but that's why I have house rules. There are several other game mechanics I dont agree with and we house rule 'em too. Doesnt mean that I think the designer is stupid or wrong, just that I disagree for whatever reason. My only issue is being a mildy educated sword enthusiast and obsessive-compulsive personality, so this one kinda burns me a little, though in the long run makes very little difference in the grand scheme of things.
But they have heard this kind of stuff for so long I dont think the Charles Ryan's and Monte Cook's of the world are going to go lay on the couch with a quart of ben-n-jerry's in their bathrobe watching Sleepless in Seattle while crying themselves to sleep just because I think a few in their profession didn't do good enough homework.
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ledded, a greatsword would be far more encumbering and annoying to lug around than any loaded shotgun. I don't even need to bat an eye in thinking almost *twice* as much. So yeah, umm, 15lbs maybe, MAYBE, is too much, and the abstraction thing isn't noted anywhere. But a greatsword, 6' or more of mostly sharp steel is more annoying to lug around than a shotgun.
Wee 23 posts
Tellerve
Wee 23 posts
Tellerve
jaerdaph
#UkraineStrong
Tellerve said:
Hey Tellerve,
Drop me a line when you get here and get settled: jjbardales@yahoo.com (yes, that's two "j"s up front)
A friend of mine and I have recently started a group, and we're still looking for members. He's running a Swashbuckling Adventures (d20 7th Sea) campaign, Pieces of Eight, and I'll be running a d20 Modern Dark*Matter campaign. So far he's started by running SA one-on-one's with me. As the group grows, we'll probably alternate weeks with the two campaigns. So far, we're meeting on Wednesday nights at a game store called Neutral Ground that has free gaming table space.
Since I'm moving to a new apartment over the next month, my campaign probably won't start until late December/early January. I'll post a link shortly to my D*M campaign guide for players - I need to upload the latest version first.
And welcome to New York!
Hey JPL - Dwarves can't mate with gnomes, banded male didn't exist, Muhammad Ali would rock Bruce Lee's world (weight difference), and you're right, it doesn't make any sense that Data used contractions. I feel like I should write a nasty email to Gene Rodenberry.
~~Brandon (who finds it easy to get worked up about anything)
~~Brandon (who finds it easy to get worked up about anything)
ledded
Herder of monkies
Tellerve said:ledded, a greatsword would be far more encumbering and annoying to lug around than any loaded shotgun. I don't even need to bat an eye in thinking almost *twice* as much. So yeah, umm, 15lbs maybe, MAYBE, is too much, and the abstraction thing isn't noted anywhere. But a greatsword, 6' or more of mostly sharp steel is more annoying to lug around than a shotgun.
Wee 23 posts
Tellerve
Why? And from what do you draw your conclusions? I'm not trying to be confrontational, but only curious. Do you base this off of actual experience or research, or just assumptions based off of what you've seen in popular media, film, etc?
I have lugged around an 8lb 'greatsword' (a non-sharpened 'waster') that was just under 5' for hours, and I've lugged around a 12 ga remington through the woods hunting for hours. I got just a *little* more tired carrying the sword, though I wasnt swinging the shotgun around and doing footwork drills either.
I'm thinking in context of modern day when if I was to have a greatsword without a sheath (hell even with a sheath) it would be annoying and akward. Maybe depending on where you live and what you would be doing during a normal day. From my experience holding large objects that were great sword sized...granted no greatsword holding experience, it was akward. I can't imagine greatswords were ever not akward. I agree a shotgun isn't a svelt little pistol you can pun on your belt but my time holding a shotgun (it wasn't one of the long hunting variety) it appeared to me to be much more managable.
Oh, and I'm not thinking your being confrontational, and I hope I'm not coming off that way either.
I guess the reason I go along with the 15lbs is that my opinion is that it would be more trouble to lug around a greatsword rather than a shotgun. I think if you have evidence for yourself to think differently then go ahead and change it. No one is going to arrest you or anything. If I recall your in the campaign where you all have made some very cool and interesting changes to "modern d20" and you all seem to be having a great time.
Tellerve
Oh, and I'm not thinking your being confrontational, and I hope I'm not coming off that way either.
I guess the reason I go along with the 15lbs is that my opinion is that it would be more trouble to lug around a greatsword rather than a shotgun. I think if you have evidence for yourself to think differently then go ahead and change it. No one is going to arrest you or anything. If I recall your in the campaign where you all have made some very cool and interesting changes to "modern d20" and you all seem to be having a great time.
Tellerve
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