New Character Builder from WotC!

[MarkB]

If we're going to defame WotC, lets defame them for the right things shall we?

It's 12 months AFTER your subscription ends, assuming it does NOT get renewed in that time. Assuming your subscription does not end, or you renew it within that time, nothing will ever be lost.

Plus, you'll still have the printed version of your character sheet to put away in a cupboard and rediscover years later - and converting that into a full-fledged CB version would be a trivial process of data-entry. Probably a lot easier than, e.g., finding a 3-year-old 3e character sheet and then trawling through all your books trying to track down all the class features you selected and work out what they all do.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

If we're going to defame WotC, lets defame them for the right things shall we?

It's 12 months AFTER your subscription ends, assuming it does NOT get renewed in that time. Assuming your subscription does not end, or you renew it within that time, nothing will ever be lost.

That really doesn't change my post at all. At all.

 

[Sunseeker]

That really doesn't change my post at all. At all.

Then you are clearly here only to defame WotC and would likely do so regardless of the moves they make.

 

[Dausuul]

"Q: If I end my subscription, what happens to the characters I’ve created or imported to the Character Builder?"

"A: Characters you’ve created on the new version or imported from the older version of the Character Builder will remain in our database for twelve months after the subscription expires. If you renew your subscription within that twelve month period, you will be able to access your characters again."

Ugh. Now that's just dumb--the shortsighted logic MMOs used to follow until they learned better: "If we threaten to delete their old characters, it'll force them to renew their subscriptions!"

Of course, what the MMO industry eventually figured out was that people will drop out and you can't stop them, and it's better to focus on making it easy to return. Disk space is cheap and character files are small--it could well cost more money to build and maintain the processes that purge old characters than it would to just keep the characters on file.

D&D needs to be more like World of Warcraft.

 

[fireinthedust]

Were you working directly from your character builder on your laptop during sessions, or did you work from a printout?

If you have a printout, your character is not held hostage. You have a copy of the data.

hahaha, there is the rub that reminds me of why I quit 4e some time back


1) Electricity costs money. Always having a computer on means sucking up oil, burning coal, and draining energy from my kids' grand-kids.

2)Print out sheets: ink costs cash. I'm the host, so the players print out here.

CB does the math, so no erasing changes. All changes are in ink, so all sheets must be re-done. That includes every. single. item. If the PCs so much as pick up a torch, I have to go online to update that, print it out in glorious technicolour, and pay out the nose for new ink, a new printer, paper, and the electricity to run my computer?


Incidently, PCgen for Pathfinder is FREE. It doesn't have regular updates beyond the core book. Then again, the SRD is also FREE.

When I wrote my last adventure for halloween, the entire thing was done on a Word document, with cut and paste monsters from the internet.

Monster Builder 4e may let me generate my own monsters, but how do I put them together in one document for an adventure? I'm not that tech savvy, and I decided not to search the program for a stat-block maker/exporter, as I can save way more money by getting out.

Lovely system, but it's too much cash. That's silly.

I'd rather use Pathfinder, it's less money for me the consumer.

 

[Scribble]

Ugh. Now that's just dumb--the shortsighted logic MMOs used to follow until they learned better: "If we threaten to delete their old characters, it'll force them to renew their subscriptions!"

Of course, what the MMO industry eventually figured out was that people will drop out and you can't stop them, and it's better to focus on making it easy to return. Disk space is cheap and character files are small--it could well cost more money to build and maintain the processes that purge old characters than it would to just keep the characters on file.

D&D needs to be more like World of Warcraft.

I get the feeling 12 months is the "official line," but the reality will probably be different.

One of the developers said this as "at least 12 months."

I think they'll probably be there indefinitely, but they need a length of time to fall back on so if someone comes back say, 3 years later and their info is missing, they can't flip out and sue or something.


And I have to wonder... If you haven't been using the CB for over a year are those character really that important to you?

I'd say most users who know they won't be re-newing will probably print out the characters they really care about and let the rest chill. Kind of like we did back in the day, when we leave random characters we've made rotting on a shelf somewhere.

 

[MarkB]

Ugh. Now that's just dumb--the shortsighted logic MMOs used to follow until they learned better: "If we threaten to delete their old characters, it'll force them to renew their subscriptions!"

Of course, what the MMO industry eventually figured out was that people will drop out and you can't stop them, and it's better to focus on making it easy to return. Disk space is cheap and character files are small--it could well cost more money to build and maintain the processes that purge old characters than it would to just keep the characters on file.

D&D needs to be more like World of Warcraft.

That's probably exactly how it will work out in practice.

To my knowledge, no currently-running major MMO has ever deliberately deleted the character files of a lapsed player - but almost all of them include a cut-off duration in their terms of use after which they will no longer guarantee to maintain those files, just as WotC is doing. This is probably simply to cover themselves legally in case of accidental data loss.

Likewise with WotC, I'd expect the 12-month limit to be applied in practice more in terms of a warranty expiration than an automatic records purge.

 

[Sunseeker]

1) Electricity costs money. Always having a computer on means sucking up oil, burning coal, and draining energy from my kids' grand-kids.

I know we all want to be enviro-friendly, but this is just a little silly. Books are made at the expense of trees, shouldn't you stop using those too?

2)Print out sheets: ink costs cash. I'm the host, so the players print out here.

I got a printer on sale nearly a year ago for $50 bucks, the ink it came with has lasted till now and is still fine. It's your choice to let players print at your home. My groups tell me to use my own paper, so I do. The cost of ink per page is so minimal, you're pretty much saying you can't afford the paper itsself.

CB does the math, so no erasing changes. All changes are in ink, so all sheets must be re-done. That includes every. single. item. If the PCs so much as pick up a torch, I have to go online to update that, print it out in glorious technicolour, and pay out the nose for new ink, a new printer, paper, and the electricity to run my computer?

Now you're just being silly. You know as well as I do that there is plenty of empty space left on a CB sheet print out on which you can write temporary modifiers, or add items. Short of leveling up, you can do everything you need to on the sheet just as you could on any older D&D sheet.

And claiming you'll need to buy a new printer? Come on man. My buddy prints out B+W sheets on an HP printer that's gotta be 10 years old.

 

[Dausuul]

That's probably exactly how it will work out in practice.

To my knowledge, no currently-running major MMO has ever deliberately deleted the character files of a lapsed player - but almost all of them include a cut-off duration in their terms of use after which they will no longer guarantee to maintain those files, just as WotC is doing. This is probably simply to cover themselves legally in case of accidental data loss.

Likewise with WotC, I'd expect the 12-month limit to be applied in practice more in terms of a warranty expiration than an automatic records purge.

If so, that's perfectly reasonable--but in that case they should be phrasing it as "We do not guarantee to maintain your data after 12 months."

As for how important the character is to me, I doubt I'd play a character again who'd been offline for 12 months, but I sure would like to be able to get the sheet back! People get attached to their favorite characters. I still have fond memories of the PC I played in my first college campaign, lo these many years ago, and would dearly love to have her old character sheet back. One of the advantages to storing characters in electronic form is that they're less likely to get lost in the shuffle.

 

[RangerWickett]

I like the Steam model. My dream version of the D&D subscription would be:

Dungeons & Dragons Insider

1. Free Demo. You can create an account for free, and play with the basic character builder that can store one 1st level character at a time for free, and access monsters of up to 3rd level. There would be occasional freebies added to this, like sample adventures and such, because you want to let prospective customers try out your product.



2. The Astral Sea. If you subscribe, you gain access to The Astral Sea. This is the primo online package. As long as you're subscribed, you have full access to the character builder, monster builder, and so on, and can create and store any number of things on their servers.

You can browse Dragon and Dungeon online, or purchase the pdfs for $1 an issue. Likewise, while you're online you can browse the actual rulebooks (not just the rules compendium), and you can purchase the pdfs for $3 - $10.

When you purchase a book or magazine on The Astral Sea, you can download it to your computer. There would be an offline program -- The Material Plane -- that lets you easily track your offline material. More on that in #4 below.



3. Gaming Group. The idea is that the DM has the main account, and the players can use whatever the DM acquires for the group. There would need to be an option to buy a gift subscription, like if a player has money but wants somebody else to run the game. Also, make it easy for players to buy books for the group to use.

You can assemble a gaming group, tying them to your subscription. In a given month, you can have up to 6 people in your gaming group. If you're full and you drop somebody, you either have to wait a month to add the new guy, or you spend an extra $1 a month per extra person.

People in your gaming group just need to have free accounts, not paid accounts. While they're online, they can use the full character builder, and can browse any ebooks or magazines you have purchased, because those are part of the group's shared bookshelf. They can't browse the other books or use the monster builder or adventure tools, though, and they can't download pdfs unless they want to purchase them for themselves. When someone in a group owns a pdf of a book, it's cheaper for others in the group to buy it.



4. The Material Plane. This is the offline-use program, which any subscriber can get for free. It lets you download and keep track of monsters and characters you've made. Additionally, whenever you do log in, it checks what books and magazines your group has access to. The offline character builder would let you make characters using any off those resources, plus all the free 1st level stuff.

(This is another way to discourage piracy. Sure, you can pirate the pdfs of the books, but unless you actually purchase them through the Astral Plane, your Material Plane character builder program won't be able to use them.)



5. Gaming Apps. Eventually, they need character sheet apps for cell phones. This is where I see the game going in the next 5 years. Every player makes a PC -- maybe through their phone, but probably on a computer -- then has their phone at the game table, using it as their character sheet. When you take damage or use a power, you tap the screen a few times and keep track of it.

As things get better, they could make it so a GM could sync up with his players' phone-based character sheets. Maybe the GM is running from a laptop, and he wants to see a character's current status. He just clicks a button, and the character sheet pops up.

(They can put in a dice roller if they want, but I prefer to use real dice, thank you very much.)